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Insane Duane
03-09-2007, 03:14 PM
I am puzzled when I watch the vast majority of Randori video's. What is the point of having multiple attackers when they do not attack at the same time?!?! As one uke attacks, the others politely wait for eye contact before they attack. In some cases the Nage has his back to an uke who is within striking/tackling distance. How are you supposed to learn to defend against multiple attackers when you are not attacked by multiple attackers?!?

What really confuses me is watching Shodan and higher rank tests that do their randori like that.

Didn't mean to rant. I was just wondering how many others thought this too.

03-09-2007, 03:45 PM
Randori is never practiced in our dojo in the way you describe. As you have implied, one cannot expect a gang of attackers on the street to politely wait their turn at you. Since this is true, attackers in randori should always attack en masse. If one moves well it is possible to order the situation so that you are still only dealing with one attacker at a time.

03-09-2007, 03:47 PM
Have you practiced Randori?

03-09-2007, 04:06 PM
It's a good point you make Duane.
Many Aikido schools don't even know that they do it. I have yelled at my students when they are doing this, and they look at me like they didn't know they were waiting around for nage.

It takes a lot of open minded awareness to attack continuously in class. Often after a student is thrown they will want to retreat into themselves and assess exactly what happened. Or they don't want to make Nage look bad, so they will give them time to recover.

It really depends and who's in charge of the Randori. If you look to someone like Segal or Reynosa; you will not see this very often in the Randori they conduct.

Insane Duane
03-09-2007, 05:06 PM
I'm glad you mentioned Seagal and Reynosa, ChrisHein. Seagal/Take sensei is who our dojo tries to emulate. Unfortunately I have yet had the privilege to train with Take sensei.

We still do our best to give a realistic setting. With beginners, we teach them evasions from ryo kata dori using two uke's. The uke's go at a slow speed, but they do not stop the attack until the senei says Yame. The newbee's are overwhelmed at first and I think necessary. After awhile they start to get the feel of it and we add another uke. Then we speed it up. Once the nage's can evade well, we let them do kokyu nage, noroskiage and sumi otoshi. Then we start to allow the uke's to punch (tsuki), shomen uchi, any grab and the nage has freedom to do any technique that is uke appropriate. Depending on who's there, we can get up to some good speed randori.

The main problem with us doing full speed randori is the constant flow of aikidoka. What I mean is, we get someone new, invest a lot of time to train them and then they leave. This makes it difficult to get a group of aikidoka that can handle full speed randori. We get a lot of basic to intermediate randori but rarely do we get to do full randori.

We are a not for profit dojo. No contracts, no financial obligations. Which is great and I love the aspect of it because no one is denied training just because they can't afford it. But this also means there is no obligation to stay other than personal. We also get a lot of people who are in the military. Because of the war, they are a revolving door. It's great to train with them, but it take a long time to get proficient enough to do randori.

Joe Jutsu
03-10-2007, 04:29 PM
Well, it didn't go quite as smoothly as I would have liked it to, but I'll post a link to my shodan randori that I took last night once I get it up on the net.

But I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments, it's kind of funny actually, alot of the randori from "aikijutsu" dojo's that I see on youtube who claim to be "much more effective than aikido" hold their randori's in the "attack one at a time" fashion.

I'd like to see how these nage's would fair in my "soft ineffective" aikido dojo! :D