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Suru
01-26-2007, 08:27 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness. Even if the pain lasts for the rest of your life, at least you can carry with you the Pride (Hokori) that you are doing your absolute best. If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew

Kevin Wilbanks
01-26-2007, 08:43 PM
I think this got mistakenly posted here. Looks like it should be in the 'Humor' section. Good one!

L. Camejo
01-26-2007, 08:51 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza.Well if they really are more advanced in aikiwaza then they should be able to kick your a$$ using aiki waza which, since this is a martial art, means that you probably have something to learn from them. When you are able to kick theirs then the tables would have turned and you become their sempai.;)

The antidote for hypocrisy is to get out there and show what you've got. If you're worth anything it should show up in your Aikido which starts with aiki waza and ends with the whole "world peace" thing. One can't bring about world peace without first having effective means of dealing with the enemies of that peace.

;)
LC:ai::ki:

Suru
01-26-2007, 09:03 PM
looks like a couple hypocrites are past the point of no return :(

Drew

L. Camejo
01-26-2007, 09:06 PM
looks like a couple hypocrites are past the point of no return :(

DrewLol. I like it.:D

How do you define hypocrite?

NagaBaba
01-26-2007, 10:01 PM
I Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness.
...and I, assisting you, symbolically will cut your head off. What a world today, everything become wirtual, even honorable death. No more real warriors.

s(wondering what will be metaphorical sex.... :D )

xuzen
01-26-2007, 10:07 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness. Even if the pain lasts for the rest of your life, at least you can carry with you the Pride (Hokori) that you are doing your absolute best. If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew

Drew Garner-san think to much. More sake make you think less, be happy!

Boon.

L. Camejo
01-26-2007, 10:38 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza.Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISONI'm still trying to get this - so people who are better than you in aikiwaza or are higher in the rank hierarchy are poison and hypocrites?

Is that right or have my hypocritical tendencies allowed me to completely miss the boat on this one?

LC:ai::ki:

eyrie
01-26-2007, 10:56 PM
(wondering what will be metaphorical sex.... :D )

http://www.vrinnovations.com/

Kim Rivers
01-26-2007, 11:46 PM
:confused: I am confused, wouldn't pointing at others and naming them as poisonous and hypocrites be rather un-aiki-like, thus making the accuser the hypocrit?

I like someone else's suggestion that you have more sake :) -Kim

Steven
01-26-2007, 11:49 PM
Ignatius,

Not sure what's more disturbing. The items for sale on that site or the fact you even knew the URL to that site. :-)

Tennessee Mike
01-26-2007, 11:54 PM
Paraphrasing C. S. Lewis, "Knowing what men ought to do and doing it are two different things." Hypocrisy is a human condition just like pride. Just remember Socrates slogan, no not "question everything", but "an unexamined life is not worth living." Remember while others may say "you are not doing aikido" and you might not be, that we all express aikido differently. Observation of techniques depends on the observer and can be subjective depending on attention to detail, experience, prior teachers, and preconceptions about aikido.

As far as love, you might try to determine it from words and actions but you still have to know the intent of the doer. If you fully understand love then you truly know how to respond to every situation and no longer need aikido since you would be perfect. But since we are not perfect, then we cannot fully express love. No matter how we try, we bring our faults with us on the mat.

eyrie
01-27-2007, 12:25 AM
Not sure what's more disturbing. The items for sale on that site or the fact you even knew the URL to that site. :-)

LOL @ Steven. True, I'm a seriously disturbed individual... that's why my Google-fu is STRONG!... :D

I meant to put a NC-17 or MA18 warning on my previous post... :sorry:

clwk
01-27-2007, 12:35 AM
I think it would be a good idea for all participants in this thread to review the (recent AikiWeb) topic of Bipolar Disorder (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11651) before getting too worked up about anything. It's always a good idea to avoid getting worked up if possible, and the aforementioned topic is a complex one. Other than those platitudes, I have nothing special to add; and I hope no one minds the insertion of a few well-meaning, if misguided, remarks. Even though the internet is not really a good medium for such things, I think some measure of empathy may go further than what might otherwise be appropriate response. Everyone could apply this innocuous suggestion without any great harm coming to the world.

Have a nice day.

Chhi'mèd

hapkidoike
01-27-2007, 12:58 AM
. . . Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. . . .

Drew

The problem with this sort of attitude is that it hinges on who gets to define the terms, and how those agreed upon terms are to be interpreted in specific circumstances. Until we 1) agree upon definitions and 2) agree on how to interpret them, then we cant even really discuss your issue.
Second, give us a break man. Everybody does whatever it is that they do (aikido, taekwon do, dance, art, music, small engine repair, play AD&D [2nd ed.], etc.) for their own reasons. I do aikido for lots of different reasons, but none of them include 'philosophy' or any sort of attempt to understand normative ethics. Telling people that they are doing something that they get off on for the "wrong" reasons is offensive and immature. If you start sweating people about their motivations, probably they will start sweating you for yours.
later
bettis

Kevin Wilbanks
01-27-2007, 02:39 AM
I think it would be a good idea for all participants in this thread to review the (recent AikiWeb) topic of Bipolar Disorder (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11651) before getting too worked up about anything. It's always a good idea to avoid getting worked up if possible, and the aforementioned topic is a complex one. Other than those platitudes, I have nothing special to add; and I hope no one minds the insertion of a few well-meaning, if misguided, remarks. Even though the internet is not really a good medium for such things, I think some measure of empathy may go further than what might otherwise be appropriate response. Everyone could apply this innocuous suggestion without any great harm coming to the world.

Have a nice day.

Chhi'mèd

I've encountered this before on message boards. Someone claiming to be manic-depressive bursts on attacking everyone in sight with vitriolic rants so ridiculous they seem like a joke. It gets into a really tricky area in terms of the defintion of an illness vs. the concept of free will.

To what extent do we excuse someone from acting like a raging a-hole because their brain chemistry "made them do it"? Couldn't the same logic be applied to anyone who does anything? Oh, that Hitler guy was just acting out his insecurity issues, he really couldn't help it... Oh, that pedophile rapist just had a psychological complex dervied from his abusive upbringing with the blah, blah, blah... we should have sympathy for him...

I think, overall, that people just don't think like this, and trying to force some sort of radical PC vision of human culpability on them wherein they put up with any sort of unreasonable abuse won't work. Bipolar is still getting a pass, I suspect, because these people alternate between a more recognizable "normal" state, and a sociopathic state that no one has any patience or sympathy for.

I really don't see any way to accomodate or tolerate a bipolar person's episodes any more than I would someone else who has no official excuse and is just a jerk. Their hidden brain chemistry and motivational schemes are not my problem. You are what you are. I'm depressive and I don't go around using it as an excuse to be let off the hook for how I behave. I accept myself and the consequences. If you want to make an extra effort to understand me and my motivations, that's great, but I don't expect any special treatment. I don't think manic-depressives throwing down gauntlets and spewing insults should be any different. It is their responsibility to get some kind of grip on their behavior schemes and avoid acting out in public, and if they don't, they should expect to get what they ask for.

batemanb
01-27-2007, 03:09 AM
......When you are able to kick theirs then the tables would have turned and you become their sempai.;).......


Not true I'm afraid. the sempai kohai relationship has nowt to do with ability or grade.

Basically, "Bob" joins the club before me or starts Aikido before me, he will always be my sempai, regardless of what grades or abilities we both achieve. There are old threads on here explaining the sempai - kohai relationship, I'm pretty sure Peter Goldsbury has explained it in detail a time or two.

Suru
01-27-2007, 06:52 AM
Oh, that Hitler guy was just acting out his insecurity issues...a sociopathic state that no one has any patience or sympathy for...I really don't see any way to accomodate or tolerate a bipolar person's episodes any more than I would someone else who has no official excuse and is just a jerk. Their hidden brain chemistry and motivational schemes are not my problem.

HItler was prejudiced against and murdered people with mental disorders. No matter what mood I've been in, I've never been a sociopath (a person with no conscience). I haven't been manic or depressed in seven years. I know it's an easy mental shortcut to group bipolars, instead of realizing they're individuals, but you're showing your ignorance and lack of insight. I urge anyone in the world who has a legitimate reason to dislike me to call me out on this message board. I expect more wussy beating around the bush or silence.

Drew

RoyK
01-27-2007, 07:08 AM
I think that as long as you feel that your instructor is following the path that you believe to be true to Aikido, that's all that should matter to you.

statisticool
01-27-2007, 07:16 AM
Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream.


http://www.80srockstars.net/poison/poison028.JPG

There is no hope.

Suru
01-27-2007, 07:22 AM
I think that as long as you feel that your instructor is following the path that you believe to be true to Aikido, that's all that should matter to you.

Thinking you have one instructor is a delusional and dangerous thought.

Drew

Suru
01-27-2007, 07:31 AM
http://www.80srockstars.net/poison/poison028.JPG

There is no hope.

Ha! I had the same loose association when I wrote "POISON:"

"...rollin' the dice of her life..."

"...win big...lose big"

"...I won't forget you baby..."

"...DJ says love's a game of easy come and easy go..."

Drew

L. Camejo
01-27-2007, 08:03 AM
Not true I'm afraid. the sempai kohai relationship has nowt to do with ability or grade.True. Hence the smiley at the end of the post.

However the lack of actual technical ability (usually a base level equalizer in many other MA) on the part of one's seniors can be a window through which feelings of "hypocrisy" on their part may enter. The kohai/sempai relationship is directly linked to a certain degree of respect between the people involved but this respect is often enforced by some other motivation within the dojo culture. There are many stories of friction between kohai and sempai when the former bypasses the latter in rank or technical skill. This friction can be resolved in a number of ways based on the persons involved.

Though the initial post was pretty much a rant, what I did get from it was some disgruntled feelings towards sempai either in the area of aikiwaza skill or their understanding/application of Ai and Rei. I'm guessing his feelings may be linked to disappointment in what he is experiencing from his sempai in these areas. Clarification will be required I guess.

LC:ai::ki:

Lyle Bogin
01-27-2007, 08:08 AM
I don't think anyone fully understands anything.

Suru
01-27-2007, 08:35 AM
I don't think anyone fully understands anything.

Fully understand relative to God? No. Fully understand to the extent of our human capabilities? Yes. Please expand on this...in and of itself it sounds like a cop out.

Drew

柘植富安
01-27-2007, 08:50 AM
[QUOTE=...FULLY understand Love (Ai)

Drew[/QUOTE]

May I respectfully suggest that one of the better language posts about ”合” be made a sticky post? If one more person spews "love" out... :hypno:

mrfeldmeyer
01-27-2007, 10:27 AM
Drew,

I think you should quit worrying about everyone else so much and keep getting out on the mat and pushing yourself. Your statement about being disturbed by Yudansha not understanding what Aikido is, is pretty disturbing. Becoming a Yudansha does not instantly provide you with all the answers to Aikido. No one has a total understanding of "O-Sensei's Dream" except for O-Sensei himself. You are obviously full of a bit of this POISON yourself, since you are wasting time and pointing fingers at everyone else. This does not sound like Love (Ai) or Respect (Rei) for anyone but yourself. Have you considered that this evil within people is why they are going to Aikido practice. They are trying to recognize and deal with it.

RoyK
01-27-2007, 11:21 AM
Thinking you have one instructor is a delusional and dangerous thought.

Drew

Way to take what I said entirely out of context.

Kevin Wilbanks
01-27-2007, 11:38 AM
HItler was prejudiced against and murdered people with mental disorders. No matter what mood I've been in, I've never been a sociopath (a person with no conscience). I haven't been manic or depressed in seven years. I know it's an easy mental shortcut to group bipolars, instead of realizing they're individuals, but you're showing your ignorance and lack of insight. I urge anyone in the world who has a legitimate reason to dislike me to call me out on this message board. I expect more wussy beating around the bush or silence.

Drew
You need to look up sociopath - what you are doing here certainly fits the description. There is no more legitimate reason to dislike someone.

You grossly missed the point of the analogy if you think it was to imply you are a murderer. The point was that a bunch of random people aren't your mommy, and don't care about why you're "special". If you viciously attack people for no reason, even a bunch of Aikidoists, you should not expect to weasel out of responsibility for it by whining about your hidden motivations and mental problems. No one cares. You have to establish a relationship with someone to get them to care about you enough for them to receive bile and vitriol from you with a smile... you'll be lucky to make a handful of friendships that strong in your lifetime. At this rate, I doubt you'll find even one.

If you know you have an illness that makes you unable to keep from behaving like this, then you know enough to take precautions and stay away from message boards and cocktail parties during an episode, at least. Think of it like being a werewolf. Know when the full moon is out and chain yourself up until it's over. The world is not your toilet.

Suru
01-27-2007, 11:59 AM
I sense insecurity and cowardice...thank you all for reassuring me of the necessity of my original statement. I'm glad I troubled some people...some people need to be troubled.

Drew

chris w
01-27-2007, 12:45 PM
Basically, "Bob" joins the club before me or starts Aikido before me, he will always be my sempai, regardless of what grades or abilities we both achieve. There are old threads on here explaining the sempai - kohai relationship, I'm pretty sure Peter Goldsbury has explained it in detail a time or two.

So if "Bob" has been a member of the dojo longer than "Dave", but "Dave" is a 2nd kyu and "Bob" is still a 3rd kyu, which one sits in the senior position when they line up? I ask because in my dojo, I am "Bob" and there are a few "Daves". I line up to the left of the "Daves". I always assumed this was correct because of my lower rank and the fact that my Sensei never told me to move.

Am I sitting in the correct position?

Ecosamurai
01-27-2007, 12:52 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant.... SNIP...., get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew

"Be warned against conceit. Conceit not only halts your progress, it causes you to regress. Nature is boundless, its principles are profound. What brings conceit? It is brought about by shallow thinking and a cheaply-bought compromise with your ideals"
- Koichi Tohei, 10th Dan

I think perhaps you should tell us what exactly your interpretation of Ueshiba Sensei's 'dream' is...

Regards

Mike Haft

mathewjgano
01-27-2007, 12:58 PM
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat.
It's rare for people to have the grand ability you proclaim to have attained: "the day you stepped on the mat"? Of course..."the day" could mean yesterday, but I assume you mean the first day.
Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream.
You may already know this, particularly after it was already brought up on this thread, but the "ai" is actually from the verb "to meet." "Love," in Japanese, is a homonym, but the kanji is drawn very differently. Also, considering the idea that life is a journey we rarely, if ever, master completely, I find your remarks about "fully understanding love and respect" to be somewhat disturbing. Perhaps you're speaking in hyperbolic rhetoric on purpose, i don't know, but even OSensei (I'm willing to bet) was still learning about these things toward the end of his life.
If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.
Evil is such a strong word for a subject such as this, I think. Of course the problem is that each of us holds different conceptions of what it means to be evil. I prefer the Shinto concept of "impurity" to the one you're espousing. Taking the self and removing impurity from it by misogi. Taking this idea to heart along with the idea that aikiwaza is itself misogi, I don't think these so-called "hypocrits" are diminishing the dream of OSensei. They're going about it in their own way and, frankly, that's not for you to condemn.
Gambatte,
Matthew

Rich Stephens
01-27-2007, 01:21 PM
"Be warned against conceit. Conceit not only halts your progress, it causes you to regress. Nature is boundless, its principles are profound. What brings conceit? It is brought about by shallow thinking and a cheaply-bought compromise with your ideals"
- Koichi Tohei, 10th Dan

That's a nice quote, Mike. One important thing about it is it is rooted in the natural world and not the supernatural (god). Those who declare certain "truths" that come from outside nature (god), often believe they have it all figured out and have no need to continue to seek for answers or better ways of living. They use these arbitrary principles they've accepted as gifts (as opposed to knowledge gained by experience and experimentation) as a self righteous throne from which to judge others.

It is beneficial to have ideals, but they should come from our understanding of nature (and recognition that we are natural) and not man's cheaply-bought declarations of "truth" based on and backed up by nothing more than supernatural beliefs.

Mike Sigman
01-27-2007, 02:37 PM
"Be warned against conceit. Conceit not only halts your progress, it causes you to regress. Nature is boundless, its principles are profound. What brings conceit? It is brought about by shallow thinking and a cheaply-bought compromise with your ideals"
- Koichi Tohei, 10th DanI dunno. Conceit comes and goes among humans and I'm never sure that it ever can be eradicated... or that it ever should be eradicated. Some of it is just how people are.

Here's part of an interview with Koich Tohei (from Aikido Journal) that has always made me ambivalent about Tohei and "conceit" comments:

When I went to Hawaii and tried to use the techniques I had learned from Ueshiba Sensei, I found that many of them were ineffective. What Sensei said and what he did were two different things. For example, despite the fact that he himself was very relaxed, he told his students to do sharp, powerful techniques. When I got to Hawaii, however, there were guys as strong as Akebono and Konishiki [two well-known Hawaiian sumo wrestlers] all over the place. There's just no way to use force or power to prevail against that kind of strength.

When you're firmly pinned or controlled, the parts of your body that are pinned directly simply can't move. All you can do is start a movement from those parts that you can move, and the only way to do that successfully is to relax. Even if your opponent has you with all his strength, you can still send him flying if you're relaxed when you do your throw. This was something I experienced first-hand during that trip to Hawaii, and when I returned to Japan and had another look at Ueshiba Sensei, I realized that he did indeed apply his techniques from a very relaxed state.

While I was with Ueshiba Sensei I was also studying under Tempu Nakamura. It was he who first taught me that "the mind moves the body." Those words struck me like a bolt of electricity and opened my eyes to the whole realm of aikido. From that point on I began to rework all of my aikido techniques. I threw away techniques that went against logic and selected and re-organized those I felt were usable.

Now my aikido consists of about thirty percent Ueshiba Sensei's techniques and seventy percent my own.

You can probably say that Hawaii was where I did much of my most important training (shugyo). The reason I went there in the first place, by the way, was at the invitation if the Nishikai, a group devoted to the Nishi Method of Health. Their intentions, however, had something to do with pitting my martial arts abilities against some pro-wrestler and using the proceeds from the event to build their assembly hall. I didn't know about that until just before my departure, and by then it was too late to refuse, so I resigned myself to it and went anyway.

The Hawaiians were pretty frank in expressing their first impressions of me. They said, "Gee, Sensei, you're pretty young, aren't you?" Then they said, "Gee, Sensei, you're pretty small...." Then they got to the point and said, "Sensei, are you sure you can really do it?" I figured the only thing to do was to show them what I could do and let them see for themselves. After that all the local martial artists and wrestlers became my students. The Hawaii Aikikai was established eight months later, and I was also made an honorary lifetime captain in the local police force. Ueshiba Sensei was never tested like that in his whole life.

FWIW

Mike

Ecosamurai
01-27-2007, 02:53 PM
I think you might be reading more into that than there really is Mike FWIW.

Mike

Don_Modesto
01-27-2007, 02:54 PM
So if "Bob" has been a member of the dojo longer than "Dave", but "Dave" is a 2nd kyu and "Bob" is still a 3rd kyu, which one sits in the senior position when they line up? I ask because in my dojo, I am "Bob" and there are a few "Daves". I line up to the left of the "Daves". I always assumed this was correct because of my lower rank and the fact that my Sensei never told me to move.

Am I sitting in the correct position?Ask your teacher. I imagine in the States, it varies by dojo.

In Japan, SEMPAI means you entered before the other person. You sit in the higher seat.

Cady Goldfield
01-27-2007, 03:09 PM
So if "Bob" has been a member of the dojo longer than "Dave", but "Dave" is a 2nd kyu and "Bob" is still a 3rd kyu, which one sits in the senior position when they line up? I ask because in my dojo, I am "Bob" and there are a few "Daves". I line up to the left of the "Daves". I always assumed this was correct because of my lower rank and the fact that my Sensei never told me to move.

Am I sitting in the correct position?

The standard protocol: In dojo where rank is awarded, you line up according to rank, and within each rank level, individuals line up according to the order in which they received that same rank (so if Dave #1 got his 2nd kyu in April, and Dave #2 got his in May, Dave #1 stands to the right of Dave #2).

In systems and schools where there is no rank awarded (notably in many koryu systems, as well as some of the contemporary "mixed" martial art/MMA schools), the usual protocol is for individuals to line up according to when they started. So Bob would be standing to the right of the Daves in that situation.

Roman Kremianski
01-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness.

Ugh, all those sayings of love and inner "evil" are almost as annoying as memorizing slogans about how everyone is special.

O-Sensei's dream is unfortunatly, O-Sensei's dream. I can't imagine myself capable of bringing together a single city in peace and harmony, let alone the entire world. And generally since I am a beginner, if a knife-wielding maniac were to run at me, the last thing I would be thinking off is the attacker's safety. :dead:

I don't think many of us are in a position to be saying what the thread starter did about his Sempai.

Freerefill
01-27-2007, 03:56 PM
You don't need to save the world or a city or a town or a village or a home or your best buddy or even yourself. The road of aikido is a long one, and if O-Sensei had lived forever, he'd still be discovering new things even today, and a thousand years from now. We set these lofty goals like perfection and total peace and love and harmony and respect even though those who set them may never reach them. The distination, the goal, isn't the important thing. We strive to be the best we can be. And the journey teaches us that. If your goal is to take only one step, that's an easy goal to achieve. If your goal is to walk a mile, it's harder but it's doable. If your goal is to walk forever, then we must not look at the goal but each individual step as its own reward and a sign of growth.

I want to save the world some day. Just the other day I tried to use my ki to make my tea boil. Will I ever succeed? Not a snowflakes chance in hell. Am I gonna try anyway? You betcha.

Nick P.
01-27-2007, 06:42 PM
I know it's an easy mental shortcut to group bipolars, instead of realizing they're individuals, but you're showing your ignorance and lack of insight. I urge anyone in the world who has a legitimate reason to dislike me to call me out on this message board. I expect more wussy beating around the bush or silence.

Drew

Well, Drew, with that comment, you have gone from being rash and hostile to infantile and aggressive.

So, consider yourself called out on this message board, by me. And if you need a legitimate reason, just review all your previous posts on this thread, starting with the first one.

I am now off to find all your previous posts on any other forum.

You clearly came looking for this fight, and as I am not a hypocrite, I will take great pleasure in heaping load after load of pointed and barbed remarks your way. Buckle-up, buddy, it's gonna get rough....

Nick P.
01-27-2007, 06:46 PM
I sense insecurity and cowardice..some people need to be troubled.

Drew

Funny, most of us were thinking the same thing.
You appear to be troubled enough, methinks.

Ketsan
01-27-2007, 08:07 PM
I sense insecurity and cowardice...thank you all for reassuring me of the necessity of my original statement. I'm glad I troubled some people...some people need to be troubled.
Drew

Find me one person without insecurity and cowardice, find me one person that needs trouble. What people need is guidence and the best guidence comes from those who quietly set an example.

Incidently, ai is universal and accepting, it doesn't care what people are like, it just accepts and loves them and out of this comes rei. The answer to your problem is not to be found in changing those around you, it is in accepting them as they are.

chris w
01-27-2007, 08:09 PM
Ask your teacher. I imagine in the States, it varies by dojo.

In Japan, SEMPAI means you entered before the other person. You sit in the higher seat.

Thank you

chris w
01-27-2007, 08:13 PM
The standard protocol: In dojo where rank is awarded, you line up according to rank, and within each rank level, individuals line up according to the order in which they received that same rank (so if Dave #1 got his 2nd kyu in April, and Dave #2 got his in May, Dave #1 stands to the right of Dave #2).

In systems and schools where there is no rank awarded (notably in many koryu systems, as well as some of the contemporary "mixed" martial art/MMA schools), the usual protocol is for individuals to line up according to when they started. So Bob would be standing to the right of the Daves in that situation.

Thank you, also. I apologize for diverting this very strange thread.
Carry on.

Suru
01-27-2007, 08:19 PM
Funny, most of us were thinking the same thing.
You appear to be troubled enough, methinks.

I'm troubled because I love you but can't fully help you with my words. I seem to have gotten you past your denial stage and into anger. Next you'll be bargaining with God, then you'll fall into a deep depression. If you survive that, you'll come to a peaceful acceptance of your true nature (Buddha-nature). Good luck and stay strong.

Drew

Ketsan
01-27-2007, 08:33 PM
I urge anyone in the world who has a legitimate reason to dislike me to call me out on this message board. Drew


Why? To win what?

Lyle Bogin
01-27-2007, 08:39 PM
http://www.publishedauthors.net/sands/index.html

Your book...my fave quote: (referring to a soul searching trip by the main character to anarctica) "There he finds an inner heat so warm that it threatens to melt the entire frozen continent."

Well, at least we know it's not excess emissions.....

Suru
01-27-2007, 08:43 PM
Well, at least we know it's not excess emissions.....

Please clarify this.

Drew

Suru
01-27-2007, 09:00 PM
Why? To win what?

What you'll notice is that not a single human being in this world has any just cause to even remotely dislike me. That is because I have always loved and respected everyone and endured all the pain that comes along with such a conviction. I want love to win peace of mind for everyone. We all have this dream, even if it's buried in the deep recesses of our unconscious. God gave us each the human spirit, and those who ignore their perfection must be healed if we as a world society are to achieve true freedom. I'm a utopist, and I have been for 28 years.

"...No more turning away from the weak and the weary...just a world that we all must share, it's not enough that we stand and stare. Is it only a dream that there'll be no more turning away?"

"...Hey you, don't help them to bury the light. Don't give in without a fight..."

"...The myriad small creatures trying to tie us to the ground, to a life consumed by slow decay..."

--Pink Floyd

Drew

Nick P.
01-27-2007, 09:17 PM
Your wrong on one major point; the more you post the less I like you. Seriously.

If you would have started this thread with that post, and not backed down when challenged, thereby being the hypocrite you came out swinging against, not to mention the "beating around the bush"-er you so aptly attacked a few posts back, your opinion would carry more weight.

Now, however....

As for your love, I could be less affected by knowing I have it...but that would take some imagination.

I think I am done with this thread, you've obviously won, congrats.

gdandscompserv
01-27-2007, 09:23 PM
Drew, you crack me up.

Ketsan
01-27-2007, 09:23 PM
God gave us each the human spirit, and those who ignore their perfection must be healed if we as a world society are to achieve true freedom. I'm a utopist, and I have been for 28 years.
Drew

Cool with me, you do realise that, and you'll excuse me here, what you've said isn't likely to promote that? Subtly rephrasing the entire original post to be less confrontational would have helped. I'm talking skillful means here. Confrontation causes resistance, you know this.
Also realise that everyone will be enlightened one day, it's inevitable, so sit back and chill. Yes there's hypocrisy in Aikidoka, there's hypocrisy inside all of us, but it's only temporary.
So chill out, let people be, you can't change them if they don't want to change and if they want to change they don't need your help.
This thread has no real purpose, so leave it.

Suru
01-27-2007, 09:36 PM
Ricky, laughter is the best medicine.

Alex, it's tough love.

"I laugh
I love
I hope
I try

I hurt
I need
I fear
I cry

And I know you do the same things too
So we're really not that different
Me and you"

--Collin Raye

Drew

gdandscompserv
01-27-2007, 09:58 PM
Ricky, laughter is the best medicine.

Alex, it's tough love.

"I laugh
I love
I hope
I try

I hurt
I need
I fear
I cry

And I know you do the same things too
So we're really not that different
Me and you"

--Collin Raye

Drew
is'nt he the one that wrote "butterfly kisses" as well?

Lorien Lowe
01-27-2007, 11:38 PM
Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is.

"Even"? Just what do you think 'yudansha' is supposed to mean?

I'm with Lyle and Mike Haft.
Anyone who claims to understand the mind of god is not only delusional, but dangerous.

Ellis Amdur
01-28-2007, 01:01 AM
There's always an appropriate Terry Dobson story. He described one day taking ukemi for Arikawa Sensei - then 6th, later 8th dan. Terry would attack, and Arikawa would punch him in the throat, deck him and then lock him up on the ground. Terry'd tap out, but Arikawa would keep cranking it on, and Terry'd be yelping in pain and tapping and thinking, "That's not aikido. Osensei would be really mad if he saw this." Then he gets up and sees Osensei watching and smiling. The old man says, "Carry on, carry on" and with a big smile, walked out as Arikawa did some other horrible thing to Terry. Some people will just love you to death, won't they?

raul rodrigo
01-28-2007, 01:04 AM
With love like that, who needs enemies?

Michael Douglas
01-28-2007, 05:49 AM
... Then he gets up and sees Osensei watching and smiling. The old man says, "Carry on, carry on" and with a big smile, walked out as Arikawa did some other horrible thing to Terry. Some people will just love you to death, won't they?

That sounds like the 'real' Ueshiba,
Ellis do you have a quick link to more Terry Dobson anecdotes?

Not to derail such a serious and well-thought-out thread (sure)
but who has experience with getting 'used to' being struck in the throat?

Suru
01-28-2007, 07:36 AM
There's always an appropriate Terry Dobson story. He described one day taking ukemi for Arikawa Sensei - then 6th, later 8th dan. Terry would attack, and Arikawa would punch him in the throat, deck him and then lock him up on the ground. Terry'd tap out, but Arikawa would keep cranking it on, and Terry'd be yelping in pain and tapping and thinking, "That's not aikido. Osensei would be really mad if he saw this." Then he gets up and sees Osensei watching and smiling. The old man says, "Carry on, carry on" and with a big smile, walked out as Arikawa did some other horrible thing to Terry. Some people will just love you to death, won't they?

Amdur Sensei,

I'm thrilled with your reply to this thread. I have been glancing through "Aikido Journal" Vol. 22, no. 3 from 1995. Your words in the article, "Towards Simple Morality, or How Come Something so Fine Sometimes Turns so Ugly? Part 2" relate significantly:

"Few people are paralyzed or grossly deformed due to aikido. To the best of my knowledge, pedophiles like Klickstein and Lamont are rare, though who knows? Both these teachers were respected, trusted, and even loved by their students before the truth came out."

I am reminded of the following truth:

"You can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

Drew

Mike Grant
01-28-2007, 07:48 AM
There's always an appropriate Terry Dobson story. He described one day taking ukemi for Arikawa Sensei - then 6th, later 8th dan. Terry would attack, and Arikawa would punch him in the throat, deck him and then lock him up on the ground. Terry'd tap out, but Arikawa would keep cranking it on, and Terry'd be yelping in pain and tapping and thinking, "That's not aikido. Osensei would be really mad if he saw this." Then he gets up and sees Osensei watching and smiling. The old man says, "Carry on, carry on" and with a big smile, walked out as Arikawa did some other horrible thing to Terry. Some people will just love you to death, won't they?

Ellis, yourself and Terry Dobson are obviously two of the 'sempai' who don't know what you're talking about.

Hell maybe even Ueshiba himself didn't get Drew's message, so how can the rest of us be expected to!

Lyle Bogin
01-28-2007, 08:16 AM
Perhaps if I want to see the true mind of god I need to convert to Drewdiasm.

Funny, I don't look Drewish....

Suru
01-28-2007, 08:30 AM
Perhaps if I want to see the true mind of god I need to convert to Drewdiasm.

Funny, I don't look Drewish....

My search for a Drewish princess continues *sigh*

Drew

L. Camejo
01-28-2007, 09:41 AM
What was the point of this thread again?

Drew started off talking about hypocrites in Aikido being poison blah blah blah.

But what is the point that you are trying to make Drew? That hypocrites actually exist in the "divine way" of Aikido, or that you have had a particular set of experiences that has brought you to dislike the effects of hypocrisy in Aikido. I get the sense that somewhere in your initial rambling there is in fact a topic worth discussion, but first.. what is your point??? What was your motivation for the rant to start with?

Ellis: Great story. It's so interesting how the definition of what is "aiki" (even Ueshiba M.'s definition of such) has developed and changed over time and people.

Gambatte.
LC:ai::ki:

Ecosamurai
01-28-2007, 10:18 AM
That sounds like the 'real' Ueshiba,
Ellis do you have a quick link to more Terry Dobson anecdotes?

I'd recommend "It's a lot like dancing" by Terry Dobson, it's a collection of his anecdotes.

Mike

Ellis Amdur
01-28-2007, 10:22 AM
Michael - All the links I have to Terryanecdotes are all in my brain. He and I were very close for several years - I lived in the Bond Street Dojo for awhile (I suppose I coujld have been called his deshi, although the initiation rites had a lot more Grateful Dead than Japanese flute music in the background, with occasional explosions of death metal).The nice thing with Terry was there is always an anecdote to fit any occasion or perspective. I could take three points in any argument in this thread and find something Terry said to fit.
Best

DH
01-28-2007, 10:31 AM
Ellis: Great story. It's so interesting how the definition of what is "aiki" (even Ueshiba M.'s definition of such) has developed and changed over time and people.
LC:ai::ki:
Or maybe its never changed at all.
One thing is for sure. From Takeda till now? It has not improved one wit. Its been a slow but sure degradation of skill. As its grown...its shrunk!

As for the story. How about what the aikikai did to Draeger when he went and played wthout resisting much? They wrecked his elbow.

As for another of Ellis's great Terry's story-(who was the most fun hiim or you?) I always ask questions.
Why........was Ueshiba laughing?
And just who was he laughing at?
The teacher, for needing such ridiculous antics?
Or Terry for taking it?

Lets try this on for size and see how it plays.
I went to a seminar and watched while Dennis Hooker punched a guy in the throat and kept on long after the guy was screaming for him to let go. Ellis stood by and laughed. :D

Apologies to Dennis and Ellis...for the example. But just who are we following? And Why? Are abuses and personality disorders really anything new?
Add cooperation in training and all the passive / agressive behavior has room to bloom
Now as for rough housing-I'm all for it. But in my experience It usually sorts things out much more evenly.
Dan

Ellis Amdur
01-28-2007, 10:35 AM
Hi Dan - re your question(s) there is a very firm axiom in Japanese culture - adults don't get involved in children's quarrels - they are left to work it out themselves.

DH
01-28-2007, 10:45 AM
Hey you
Which leads me to wonder what would have happened with and too Terry had he opted to deck the guy.
Just who, would have left what, to be sorted out?
And who would be laughing;)

Dan

L. Camejo
01-28-2007, 11:27 AM
Or maybe its ever changed at all.
It depends on where you start. The original Kenjutsu definition and Ueshiba's definition are similar in areas yet quite different in their core aspects.One thing is for sure.
From Takeda till now? It has not improved one wit.Is it for sure? How does one measure improvement?Its been a slow but sure degradation of skillHow does one measure skill in this case?
As its grown..its shrunk!How do you measure growth in this sense?

Not trying to be difficult here. In fact I probably agree totally with you in essence. It's just that I've found that what some see as improvement others may see as degeneration. For example, some may see an increase/development in physical and technical skill as improvement while those who hold Aikido as a non-martial art, placing importance on "spiritual development" and "bringing peace to the world" may see this as a hindrance in obtaining "true spiritual creaminess". :)As for the story. I always ask questions.
Why........was Ueshiba laughing?
And just who was he laughing at?
The teacher for needing such ridiculous technique?
Or Terry for taking it?
DanAlways good to ask questions. It is the path to answers and hopefully truth imho.

Gambatte.
LC:ai::ki:

L. Camejo
01-28-2007, 11:32 AM
Now as for rough housing-I'm all for it. But in my experience It usually sorts things out much more evenly.
DanAmen to that. Sorting things out "on the mat" as my Judo sensei says, clears up a lot of issues and misconceptions quite clearly and leaves little room for hypocrisy and passive/aggressive behaviour imho.

LC:ai::ki:

Mark Freeman
01-28-2007, 01:52 PM
I want love to win peace of mind for everyone.

Sorry Drew, IMHO you do not hve the power to do this, everyone has to find their own way to peace of mind.
We all have this dream, even if it's buried in the deep recesses of our unconscious.

There is no way of knowing this, this is subjective.

God gave us each the human spirit,

this is also subjective, God is not an objective thruth, until an objective way has been found of confirming the fact. It could be a very long time coming. :sorry:

I'm a utopist, and I have been for 28 years.

is that where you reside at the moment Drew? ;)

"...No more turning away from the weak and the weary...just a world that we all must share, it's not enough that we stand and stare. Is it only a dream that there'll be no more turning away?"

"...Hey you, don't help them to bury the light. Don't give in without a fight..."

"...The myriad small creatures trying to tie us to the ground, to a life consumed by slow decay..."

--Pink Floyd

Thanks for the Floyd quote, don't often see them in print on aikiweb, one of my favourite bands :D

regards,

Mark

Cyrijl
01-30-2007, 02:13 PM
drew,
i don't like you and i don't need a reason. you can't stop me from immensely disliking you and looking down on you.

George S. Ledyard
01-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Hey you
Which leads me to wonder what would have happened with and too Terry had he opted to deck the guy.
Just who, would have left what, to be sorted out?
And who would be laughing;)

Dan
Bruce Bookman Sensei once told me about his first class at Hombu Dojo... the Nidai Doshu was lecturing, "Aikido is like a flower; you need to nurture it and it will grow..." all very spiritual.... Bruce was very excited to be at the "homeland" so to speak. Then everyone bowed to each other and Bruce's Japanese partner turned to him and, as Bruce described it, "tried to kill him".

Bruce said he noticed an interesting thing... every time he started getting the best of the Japanese fellow he was training with, Doshu was right there going, "Now boys, boys, calm down." but whenever Bruce was getting thrashed, Doshu always seemed to be on the other end of the mat.

Peace and love is just fine but you better be able to hold your own on the mat.

gdandscompserv
01-30-2007, 10:46 PM
Bruce was very excited to be at the "homeland" so to speak. Then everyone bowed to each other and Bruce's Japanese partner turned to him and, as Bruce described it, "tried to kill him".

Peace and love is just fine but you better be able to hold your own on the mat.
i know the feeling.

Guilty Spark
01-31-2007, 02:03 AM
Crazy thread.

I'll get a hypocrite sticker made up to go with my infidel one.

Bridge
01-31-2007, 07:06 AM
http://www.80srockstars.net/poison/poison028.JPG

There is no hope.

DArgh!

You have, by virtue of posting that pic up of that dodgy 80's group, reminded me of Alice Cooper!

#Ooh, your lips are venomous poison....#

Mark Freeman
01-31-2007, 01:29 PM
Peace and love is just fine but you better be able to hold your own on the mat.

I can see someone picking up that little gem for their signature. ;)

regards,

Mark

Joe Bowen
02-01-2007, 04:56 AM
Methinks the last few posts by Ellis Amdur and Peter Goldsbury make a rather eloquent finish to an otherwise silly thread.... :D

David Orange
02-01-2007, 08:15 PM
The old man says, "Carry on, carry on" and with a big smile, walked out as Arikawa did some other horrible thing to Terry. Some people will just love you to death, won't they?

It can be shocking to realize that the Japanese have a certain "streak" of something in them that can emerge at unexpected moments, even in the loving art of aikido, but it's true.

I was with members of our hombu dojo visiting a Jr. College in another city for something called a "genki taikai." I didn't appreciate the full meaning of the term at the time. The resistance was a little heavier than usual and they gave out gold medals for certain things--genki spirit for one. I didn't realize this and just treated it like a normal workout.

There was another American there who was my size and similar in build with the same color hair and basically the same haircut. Sometimes even now I see an old video and think "There I am," but then realize, "No, that's Bob." Or I think it's Bob, but realize it's me.

There was also a young Japanese nidan, call him T-san. In fact, I've forgotten his name. He was shorter than Bob and me, but powerfully built and had pretty good aikido technique, but since it was yoseikan, he also had good judo and karate. We were doing group randori, each person taking a turn as nage and being attacked by ten or twelve people in a row. Bob was up before me and when T-san attacked him, he started into a technique which T-san resisted. Bob just reached up from behind his head and grabbed his hair to pull him down in a rear drop called ushiro kami otoshi. As T-san went to the back of the line, Bob threw a couple more attackers and went out for me to take a turn as nage.

All went well until T-san came up in the attack line. He entered quickly with mawashi geri toward my head. I caught it with an x-block and rolled it over my head, rolling T-san to the ground and out of the circle. Then, as usual, I turned to receive the next attack, but as T-san rolled up to his feet, he turned and came back in for a second attack. This was unprecedented, but I guess it was the genki taikai atmosphere. By the time I realized that T-san was making a second attack, he had closed quite near and was turning for a spinning rear thrust kick. I managed to tai sabaki partly out of the way, but he caught me in the stomach with his rear thrust kick and really knocked the breath out of me. I didn't go down, though, and went to the sanchin breathing, like Terry Surugi, in The Streetfighter, pushing it all out and trying to get my breath even as I turned to face the next attacker, which happened to be Bob. He punched and I managed to throw him, though I was still out of breath. Then my turn was over and I went to the back of the line, seething about T-san's dirty trick. I couldn't figure out what had brought that on, but it turned out he was angry at Bob's throwing him with the rear hair drop. Bob said T-san came up to him later and said, "I hope I didn't hurt you with that rear thrust kick."

Bob said, "Not at all. But you might want to ask that fellow over there," pointing at me.

T-san got very embarrassed and later was inordinately friendly to me at dinner, but I never trusted him after that.

No one else seemed even to notice that it had happened. But that's Nihon damashi, isn't it?

On the other hand, another time, it went a different way. It was probably a Wednesday night. I was living at the dojo, so I was there for aikido, but no one else showed up--except the top three shihans, Tezuka, Washizu and Kenmotsu, then ranked rokudan, rokudan and godan, respectively. They put me through the wringer as usual. Nothing abusive, just grinding and resisting if I didn't get it right.

We usually trained from 7-9 PM and we were all getting tired by about 8:40, when the door opened and in came K-chan, a young nidan who was pretty good, but late, late, late. He was feeling good, bouncy and ready to go. He did a few squats, toe touches, back bends, then stepped into the randori. We went a few rounds, K-chan feeling genki because he hadn't been through all I'd been through that night. And then I attacked him and he wracked me up in a sankyo that almost took my hand off my arm. I tapped and tapped, but he was all excited and he really injured my wrist. So I had to step out of the training and I sat down. Then Kenmotsu attacked him, countered his technique and took him to the ground, grappled with him a few minutes and locked him out. Next was Tezuka and he did the same. Then Washizu, and the same thing. So it was time for K-chan to go to the back of the line. He stepped out of the circle, but Tezuka Sensei said, "Uh-uh. Go again."

K-chan said, "Boku? Mo ikai? (Me? Again?)" and they all smiled and nodded. "Mo ikai."

So they went around again, taking K-chan down every time he should have been throwing, making him grapple on the ground a few minutes before pinning him out, and every time he went through all three ukes, they told him "Mo ikai," and he had to go again.

And he went again and again until suddenly, he cried out and put his hand to his lower back. He couldn't go on. He had to sit down with a strained lower back.

He limped out of the dojo that night and I never saw him show up late and genki like that again.

So you never know which way the field is going to tilt, as Dr. Goldsbury said.

David

Neil Mick
02-01-2007, 08:51 PM
I can't imagine myself capable of bringing together a single city in peace and harmony, let alone the entire world.

With respect, if you cannot imagine it: it will never happen. But personally, I believe that you are capable of bringing together a city in peace and harmony.

Really, it all depends upon your parameters...how do you define a "city" (physical parameters, membership, etc), how long will that city stay peaceful (obviously, not permanently), what benchmarks you are using to define "harmony" (are they all dancing, then going home and getting into fights? etc).

No one has complete power over humans; but much is possible in the pursuit of peace.

Once upon a time, kids used to work in mines and hard labor, as recently as the 20th Century. One woman organized thousands of kids to march hundreds of miles to the President's Summer vacation-house.

She definitely had a part to play in ending child labor in the US. She went by the moniker of Mother Jones. I'm positive that Roman Kremianski could accomplish something along the same lines. You just need to find your dream.

Neil Mick
02-01-2007, 09:07 PM
I just finished reading the posts in this thread. Mostly good comments from all, but I do have a few of my own...

I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat.

You know, Drew, up to this point, I believe that most of us can sympathize (even as we may not totally agree). Case in point:

I've been practicing aikido for over 20 years. In fact, teaching college aikido is my main job, at the moment. But I had a similar crisis after training only 3 weeks, and it caused me to reconsider pursuing the art.

I was in Saotome Sensei's dojo...not my "home" dojo, as I was part of a "satellite" dojo under Saotome. And so, when I went to visit, I knew very few ppl. Anyway, I was training with this guy who'd obviously been training longer than I.

He was very stiff and he didn't speak a single word to me. When I grabbed his wrist in a way he didn't like, he shrugged me off brusquely and threw out his arm, obviously a signal to grab again. His body language seemed to be saying that if you're too stupid to properly attack, then what are you doing here?

If felt confused, and a little angry. Luckily, on later reflection, I put the incident in perspective as a simple miscommunication, or maybe we were hitting each other's buttons. Needless to say, I didn't let the incident throw me off (pun, sorry).

Six month's later, I went back to train at the same dojo and I managed to pair up with the same guy. I just put the previous event out of my mind, and the practice progressed smoothly (but still, we did not speak a single word to each other).

The moral? If you want to heal the world, you have to look past the world's ugliness, and reach out to its beauty.

Scolding everyone about their hypocracies is hardly the way to talk to their hearts, is it?

Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness.

See, here's where you lose most ppl...it's the tone of messianic zeal, in your post. One thing I can say about the ppl who responded so far is that most of us are martial artists. That makes us, by definition, warriors. We are all working on our "stuff."

Put yourself in our shoes...would YOU just drop everything and start worshipping Inanna, just because I told you that you are weak and following a false path? Of course not.

Even if the pain lasts for the rest of your life, at least you can carry with you the Pride (Hokori) that you are doing your absolute best. If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew

Again, these labels. But I also sense an undertone of anger in your last sentence. Perhaps you should try talking to the Sempai that made you so angry?

Suru
02-01-2007, 10:58 PM
Scolding everyone about their hypocracies is hardly the way to talk to their hearts, is it?


The heart is a foolish listener hence I talk to the brain. From what I've gathered since I began Aikido eight years ago, most Aikidoka are positive, loving people, even ones who might initially come across as arrogant. Therefore, I'm certainly not "scolding everyone." A problem arises when anyone who trains on our mats, sempai or kohai, has a selfish agenda which conflicts with Aikido philosophy. The naive and easy thought is, "oh...he/she will suddenly see the light one day soon. Maybe I'll give him/her a lotus flower and melt his/her frozen heart." Flower power does not work. As Saotome said, "Aikido is not a hippie art." Arrogant and aggressive people rarely stay in Aikido long enough to become sensei, but it happens. Any negativity in a dojo stands in the way of progress.

You say messianic zeal like its a bad thing. Is that a quality O'Sensei and his disciples are without?

Drew

Neil Mick
02-01-2007, 11:58 PM
The heart is a foolish listener hence I talk to the brain.

You might speak to the brain: but if you fail to reach our hearts, how can you expect us to change our lives?

You say messianic zeal like its a bad thing. Is that a quality O'Sensei and his disciples are without?

Drew

Yes, I do. O Sensei never talked about aikido being the only way.

And yes, IMO, it IS a bad thing. Zealots are always convinced that their's is the "true way." Their belief in their "right"-ness is usually intolerant of other perspectives.

It reminds me of something Terry Dobson said: "This guy (pointing to O Sensei's picture) didn't have all the answers. If he pretended he had, I'd have left."

Aristeia
02-02-2007, 12:29 AM
A problem arises when anyone who trains on our mats, sempai or kohai, has a selfish agenda which conflicts with Aikido philosophy.
such as?

Peter Goldsbury
02-02-2007, 12:31 AM
Hello David,

Yes, I mixed my metaphors. In a normal game of soccer the playing field is level and the goalposts don't move. Apologies.

Guilty Spark
02-02-2007, 01:29 AM
Good posts yesterday Neil.

Drew your delivery (like my grammar) needs work.