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Suru
01-17-2007, 05:59 PM
I had a big mixed episode beginning ~December of my senior year of high school. With a lot of help from family, friends, psychiatrists and therapists, I' ve been gradually recovering. My current cocktail of medications makes it impossible to "train with joy," as it depletes much stamina. Are there any other Aikidoka who have struggled to keep training in spite of manic-depression?

Drew

Gregy
01-17-2007, 08:08 PM
I do not have it but i can tell you that getting your meds in order is a challenge. In the future most likely your pill combinations will change. I recommend that you keep a very detailed log of how you feel every day from what you take.

Once you do get your meds in the 'groove' it should be smooth sailing. Make sure you keep your life in balance. Eat healthy, don't stop training and be active.

crbateman
01-18-2007, 01:20 AM
Drew, just do the best you can with the resources you have. Get your joy from the knowledge that you are taking it (and making it) one step at a time, with your eyes on the prize. It will pay off.

SeiserL
01-18-2007, 04:17 AM
Gotta second the advise to work with the professionals, giving feedback on the effects of the medication, so you can find the best dosage, combination, and timing.

Own responsibility and get educated about your conditions. Seeing through the condition can help you control it.

Having a consistent training schedule, even if not joyous, may actually help you find that middle line of stability between moods swings.

Agreed, see the long range goal/direction and walk towards it everyday.

billybob
01-18-2007, 10:28 AM
Drew,

I rode the meds for fifteen months - antidepressant, antipsychotic. I got permission to go off. Recently I went off my favorite med - beer. I have no more than one a day.

I've wrestled with .....difficult issues, all my life. Nice to know there are more than just me out there.
I hate facing myself, and feel weak because of the issues. I'm lucky to have aikido people who know me, and are not afraid of me!

Stay with aikido; your body may adjust to the meds. The beauty of aikido is you don't know what you don't know. Now, if you'll excuse me - I have to write a letter of apology to my local Shihan. --- Pushing him was part of my condition (same condition led to my nose always pointing to the right)

:)

dave

Mike Galante
01-18-2007, 08:43 PM
You might want to go to a good Homeopath. There are remedies for this as well.

Cady Goldfield
01-18-2007, 09:37 PM
Homeopathic medicine will not help this condition by itself, though if it is done in ADDITION to the regular medication, homeopathy will likely not do any harm, and may provide some comfort of a placebo-effect nature. Bipolarism is neuro-chemical in origin and is best treated with the proven forms of medication, coupled with the healthy lifestyle and approach others have advised here.

peter martin-browning
01-19-2007, 03:55 AM
Dear Drew

Firstly, I must express my admiration for you in continuing to put training as a prioroty. I dare to suggest that training even without joy will serve you well in promoting the possibility of finding joy, and at least will help you keep stable. I am a mental healthcare professional, and you will know we strongly stress the unmatchable value of exercise, good diet and rest along with activities that bring emotional satisfaction.
I would like to make a suggestion. Hearing the experience of others with similar difficulties will of course be helpful, and may alert you to possibilities you had not thought of. Though the field I work in is conventional, nevertheless I recognise the value of homoeopathic medicine. Research over more than 30 years has demonstrated that its effects are not merely placebo. So I too would encourage you to look at additional means of support, but not because I think they exert an effect only because you believe in them.
Overall, you might well get benefit from any one of a thousand complementary systems, such as shiatsu, refelexology, even chiropractic or osteopathy, but do research them for yourself rather than being guided by mere opinion.
Having said all that, training in aikido will in itself bring many of the benefits of some parts of those complementary systems. As far as the drug regime is concerned, you probably know already that it takes time and close attention to find the balance. I agree it's a good idea to keep notes. Stick at it, and I wish you well.


At your service


Peter Martin-Browning

Al Williams
01-19-2007, 06:38 AM
Drew, itís good to hear that you are trying to get on top of this. My partner is Bi-polar and has had a variety of treatment and countless med combos. I know that you have worked hard to get yourself better and for that you can be very proud.
Training whilst of meds sucks- no getting around that. You need to find it in yourself to raise that chin and step on the mat again and again and again.

Please remember: You are the only thing that can fix you- not meds, not friends, not treatments- YOU.
When youíre down Iím such that may sound harsh but when you are up and feeling good I hope it may help.

Mike Galante
01-19-2007, 10:06 AM
Homeopathic medicine will not help this condition by itself, though if it is done in ADDITION to the regular medication, homeopathy will likely not do any harm, and may provide some comfort of a placebo-effect nature. Bipolarism is neuro-chemical in origin and is best treated with the proven forms of medication, coupled with the healthy lifestyle and approach others have advised here.

I would like to respectfully disagree here. As a physician, and a homeopath, since 1980, I have treated, successfully, a number of problems such as this. Each case is different, combining the treatments in the first stages is essential. But there are a number of remedies that can help. The problem is finding the right (competent) physician.
As a practitioner of Usheibas Aikido, it is precluded that we believe in a spirit, or the spiritual nature of a person. Their mind, is not only a neuro-chemical conglomeration, but a spiritual being with a destiny and karma. Each person has their spiritual journey. For some it includes mental illness.
Spiritual healing, through spiritual practice, homeopathy, nutrition, and other natural methods can be curative.
That is my humble professional opinion.

Cady Goldfield
01-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Thank you for your opinion. In turn, my mother, a mental health professional, worked with bi-polar disorder patients for over 60 years, and noted that patients undergoing homeopathic treatments without the "cocktail" of lithium and related medications, were unable to overcome the chemical effects of their condition. Those who maintained a consistent and unbroken regimen of proven medication had a marked improvement and were able to manage their condition. Overwhelmingly, patients who refused medications (often citing that they did not want to be "dependent" on "outside" chemicals to manage their condition) and embarked solely on a course of homeopathic treatment, relapsed into bipolarism.

While there may well be some practitioners of homeopathy who are based in common sense, many, many practitioners subscribe to a wholesale pseudoscience that involves treating disorders with substances and methods that have no bearing whatsoever with the actual organic cause of the ailment. Perhaps you are among the former and not the latter. But I would advise anyone to approach homeopathy with caution. Especially where brain chemistry is involved, one can't afford to make a wrong choice in treatment.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

Meanwhile, for the sake of the individual who started this thread, I'd ask that any further discussion of homeopathy be started in the open discussion forum as a new thread. Thanks.

Gregy
01-19-2007, 02:18 PM
Listen to Cady^

You do not want to mess with "natural" treatments for bi-polar disorder. I know people on this forum mean well but this is one chemical imbalance in the body that natural cures cannot address.
Stop taking meds and you WILL end up in the hospital or in jail guaranteed.

Mike Galante
01-19-2007, 08:47 PM
Cady, You know, the more I think about it, the more you are right, most practitioners are so poorly trained, or not trained, that misprescribing is rampant. This is why I emphasized the competence when looking for a professional. Unfortunately there are many lay practitioners, who may help with some things, in the case of mental illness, may not out of their league. I would never yank someone off lithium, etc. If the person was showing improvement, a gradual process over a long period of time is necessary.

But, I bring these things up only to open the minds of those that are suffering, not to promote myself but to provide hope.

Why should a person stop looking for help, just because you think that there is nothing else.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

--From Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)

Certainly Aikido can help if done as the master taught. Keeping Tanden is creating a connection with inner/higher energies, which can balance too much head energy and promote a more peaceful state of being. Doing zazen is another great hellp. Nutrition can help.

There is also a real possibility with spiritual healing:

"There are no incurables" - Bruno Groening (1906-1959)
http://www.bruno-groening.org/english/

That is just like physicians who condemn their patients to a prognosis of death, just because they don't know any other way.

Since Aikido is a spiritual way, then shouldn't we look to God and higher beings to guide us? (as opposed to mental health care professionals)) If you rule your life only by common sense, then what kind of dreams do you have?
What are your aspirations?
Ueshiba teaches us to become one with the universe. Is that common sense? A totally practical person might say that is insane.

I hope I am getting this across, the person who first posted is looking for help, so on the chance that one person might benefit, I put up this post. (Don't stop your meds)

Cady, to reply to the link you posted, please refer to this link:

http://www.homeoinfo.com/09_reference/miscellaneous/bolen_oct_02.php

May peace be with you,

Michele Galante, MD

Cady Goldfield
01-20-2007, 09:32 AM
Thank you, but when it comes to serious situtations that have absolutely no latitude for "alternative therapies," any responsible, reputable medical professional would have to insist that the individual adhere to the proven methods, rather than experimenting with questionable sources. Bipolarism is, as Greg said, a condition that one can't afford to gamble with. Again, once a person has been concretely diagnosed with bipolar disorder (meaning, it's been confirmed without a doubt) and is on a regimine of medication -proven- to manage bipolarism, then he or she can add any other alternative to it, if that adds a sense of comfort.

And, signing "MD" to one's name is not a guarantee that the doctor possessing the degree has a deep understanding of science and how medicine works. Only that one is capable of rote memorization. I've met plenty of doctors who believed deeply in pseudosciences and the supernatural. These play no role in the actual biochemical processes of the human body. I would strongly urge anyone seeking a medical doctor to probe into the person's educational and professional background, get references, and check with their state/regional medical board.

And again, please start a new thread if you want to pursue a discussion of homeopathic medicine. Further discussion of it here diverges from Drew's question and doesn't serve the topic. Thanks.

Mike Galante
01-20-2007, 12:02 PM
I don't know how you can know so much and be so sure. Drew, this feels like an attack at this point, I am sorry you are not open to other methods. I have emailed Drew privately with my thoughts in this matter.

God Bless you and may you have peace and happiness,
Mike

Jane Biggio
01-21-2007, 07:05 AM
Hi Drew, Sounds like you know how to take care of yourself and also you have the benefit of loving, supportive people around you. Personally, I always go to a Naturopathic Doctor whenever I need help with anything. I prefer to acknowledge my self as a whole human being that is part of this universe. When it comes to disease, pain, or imbalance, I wonder "what came first?, is my perception of the world making me sick, is my body making me sick, or is the world itself making me sick?" It's probably a combination of those things. I prefer to address whichever mode is easiest, simplest, most accessible. For me that comes in the form of journaling and questioning my self to help me notice what I might be missing in my life. Then there is Taoist Tai Chi, Aikido Kokikai, and the Trager Approach; they help me experience my body as an integrated whole. For me that means I get to connect with my body, mind and spirit all at the same time. I get volumes of feedback this way. I am a Trager practitioner and many of my clients tell me that Trager sessions help relieve their depression. I've never worked with someone who has bipolar disorder. Trager sessions can help a person connect with their own nervous system and subconscious mind through movement. I think it is fascinating. I'm going to include links to some websites that you might find interesting. Good luck. Jane
www.healtouch.com/csft/bodywork.html (bodywork and neuropeptides - the molecules of healing, by Donald J. Glassey)
www.doitnow.org/pages/brain.html (Neuropeptides: Unlocking the secrets of the brain, by Jim Parker)
www.taoist.org (taoist tai chi)
www.trager-us.org (the Trager Approach)
www.living-foods.com (raw food recipes, etc. I am definitely suspicious of pesticides, etc, there are a lot of people suffering from depression and it just doesn't seem natural. I also think that has something to do with how isolating our culture can be.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wabi-sabi (when I get bummed out about the way things are I am comforted by this word wabi-sabi that is the name of a Japanese Tea Ceremony that celebrates the imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete nature of our world.)

Cady Goldfield
01-21-2007, 10:32 AM
"Whenever you need anything"? Do you have bi-polar disorder? Or schizophrenia?
Again, please, please... the everyday "needs" of a person who doesn't have a distinctive, diagnosed condition such as bi-polar disorder will not be harmed by homeopathic treatments, but a person with genuine bi-polar disorder has everything to lose by seeking homeopathic treatment instead of sticking to a proven course of medication prescribed by a psychiatriatric physician.

Too many people do not understand what it means to have a genuine, cataclysmic brain chemistry condition. This is something that does not respond to pseudoscientific treatments and potions. It has taken decades to develop the actual functioning medications that control these conditions -- with empirically proven results. There are no other proven "naturalistic" treatments that can be shown, empirically, to work. Until any homeopathy practitioners can show empirical results in regimented scientific trials, they should not be offering to treat bi-polarism, schizophrenia, or any other such condition.

hapkidoike
01-22-2007, 01:41 AM
Listen to Cady^

You do not want to mess with "natural" treatments for bi-polar disorder. I know people on this forum mean well but this is one chemical imbalance in the body that natural cures cannot address.
Stop taking meds and you WILL end up in the hospital or in jail guaranteed.

That statement is completely absurd.
Your argument:
Any one who has bipolar disorder will end up hospitailized or in jail if they refuse treatment.
Person X has bipolar disorder and refuses treatment.
Therefore person X will necessarily be hospitalized or put in the slammer.

This would assume that historically, lets say before MAO inhibitors were used as a treatment for bipolar disorder (1940's?), all bipolar folks ended up in asylums or in jails. This for obvious reasons cannot be shown to be the case, but I dont think that it is very likely that such is the case. Second, all we must do to show that your absurd claim is indeed absurd, is to find ONE example, merely one anecdote. This cannot easily be done either due to people not really being comfortable with admitting to their having such problems and the whole doctor/patient confidentiality thing. This being said, I know of at least one example of an individual who is bipolar and is currently not 'medicated' and has not been for at least a decade. That individual is neither in a hospital or in jail, and is as productive a member of society as he/she feels like being.

Suru
02-16-2007, 04:32 PM
Drew,

I rode the meds for fifteen months - antidepressant, antipsychotic. I got permission to go off. Recently I went off my favorite med - beer. I have no more than one a day.

I've wrestled with .....difficult issues, all my life. Nice to know there are more than just me out there.
I hate facing myself, and feel weak because of the issues. I'm lucky to have aikido people who know me, and are not afraid of me!

Stay with aikido; your body may adjust to the meds. The beauty of aikido is you don't know what you don't know. Now, if you'll excuse me - I have to write a letter of apology to my local Shihan. --- Pushing him was part of my condition (same condition led to my nose always pointing to the right)

:)

dave

You may find more comfort, as I did, in the words of some dear Enigma listeners:

http://www.enigmamusic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11213&highlight=a+catharsis

I prefer the just-as-acceptable term "major tranquilizer" over "antipsychotic" because there is an incorrect tendency to associate "psychotic" with "psychopath" while these words mean two completely separate things.

Drew