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daniel loughlin
01-17-2007, 02:18 PM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

Mark Gibbons
01-17-2007, 02:42 PM
Quite seriously. If you can, don't be there. I've changed walking routes to avoid gang/drug dealer territory for instance. Assuming you have a specific situation in mind do you really have to be where this person is?

I don't think you'll find a best action. Too much depends on the situation and penalties. How bad is it if you are intimidated? What happens if you are not intimidated and the situation escalates to violence? How crazy are the would be intimidaters? Finding something you can live with is normally the best you can do.

Humor sometimes helps.
Traveling with friends can work.
Just not understanding what someone wants when they try to start something can be quite effective.
Be very polite.

You probably have thought of a number of options, trust your instincts and your brain.

Luck,
Mark

daniel loughlin
01-17-2007, 02:50 PM
yeah have definitly thought thesse options through and aplied probably all of them but sometimes even though being able to walk away still doesnt feel good if intimidation is allowed
for instance had some trouble with some other people and was with my friends
when one of them who was just looking for a fight offered myself and two of my friends into the toilets (i laughed at first)
ha but then had to restain my friend as he was quite drunk and i always try to avoid conflict
however it was only thanks to one of the troublemakers friends stopping them that no fighting occured
i suppose the main thing i dont like is the feeling it gives you almost like being bullied how to overcome this feeling

ChristianBoddum
01-17-2007, 03:10 PM
mind over feelings - you must walk this path , or someones gonna get you !

My ears have heard many things that I didn't allow to go to heart, and at some distance of it
, it was clear that it was the only right way to go around it.

daniel loughlin
01-17-2007, 03:20 PM
couldnt agree more but can this attitude sometimes lead to violence if you ignore them

SeiserL
01-17-2007, 05:46 PM
IMHO, acknowledge them with a friendly nod and smile, relax, breathe, and control your internal fear based fantasies. Intimidation works because it elicits this internal response and it doesn't work if you don't go into fantasy-land.

xuzen
01-17-2007, 10:34 PM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

Be aware of his action. Identify escape routes, look at your surrounding. Be impersonal and un-emotional about it. Maintain your composure, bearing and posture. In an unfazed manner, retreat tactically to a more secure location.

Boon.

Mike Grant
01-18-2007, 07:58 AM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

Get your retaliation in first.

I can't imagine O Sensei (in his prime) doing anything else.

SeiserL
01-18-2007, 08:49 AM
I love this old story:

Bandits were roaming the countryside. Everyone was afraid and went into hiding. Except one man who went about his day. When cornered by the bandits, they ask if he knew who they were. he said yes, he knew. The leader said, "Do you know I can run you through without flinching?" The man replied, "Do you know i can be run through without flinching?" The bandits left.

One of you must be afraid. Get off the line (don't take it personally), and let it be them.

IMHO, O'Sensei didn't have to be intimidated because of his skill, fearless.

ian
01-18-2007, 10:21 AM
from Chuang Tzu (rephrased),
"When a fisherman is out on the lake in his own vessel, and he bumps into an empty boat, he will consider it an accident and think nothing of it. However if there is another man in that boat he will become irrate and shout abusively, believing it to be the fault of the other man. A pure man becomes like an empty boat."

Goes something like that anyway. Basically, alot of fights between young males is about ego and intimidation (basically trying to impress potential mates or increase their position in a hierarchy). It is difficult to second guess someones intensions (some people are just annoyed for something you've done, where an apology is useful, others want to fight and will see an apology as a sign of fear). Break out of the whole aggressive loop. If there is a problem, just be honest, rational but neither defensive nor aggressive. Be prepared to do ANYTHING and thus have no fear of a fight, nor any desire for one. This will help you to choose the appropriate action.

On a more practical level, ignore eye contact (unless you want a fight), but don't shy away - just get on with what you are doing. Interestingly with many animals, often strong males will make eye contact which may be a precursor to a fight. However, a child can make prolonged eye contact with a adult male and the male will just ignore it (because it isn't even considered a threat).

Thus, if you wish to break eye contact without looking weak a) don't feel weak! b) realise its just superficial bull-shit c) just get on with what your doing d)

Yawning can be a reaction, but often that is seen as threatening behaviour (yawning may derive from a display of teeth (main weapons) in some primate situations).

As an aside, I'm a big believer that acceptance of death and defeat is essential to a fuller understanding of martial arts. Basically, you have to do what is appropriate when the time requires it. Pretty much anyone can kill anyone else (Takeda wouldn't let people he didn't trust within 3 yard of him).

As far as pre-emptive strikes go. I am all for them, but you need to make a judgement on whether you feel that a physical confrontation will actually occur. As you say, if you know they are definately looking for trouble (and it has to be with you), go for it. However, a word of caution: I once pre-emptively struck someone in the eye with my finger and it it looked to really have damaged them. It completely enraged them, and I actually felt weakened by the guilt which resulted me getting a bit of a pounding (not sure if I permanently damaged their eye; there was blood coming out of it).

A better technique is to have a buddy looking out for you - if the aggressor approaches, your buddy sneaks around the back and chokes them out (then its over in a matter of seconds and the aggressor won't even know what happened!) - I've tried this very succesfully twice.

P.S. I'd agree with previous post saying trust your instincts as well. What many people don't realise is that a real fight starts with a difficult and rapid assessment of the situation with limited information; that's why I would never be arrogant enough to judge someone else's response to a potential attack. Most of all, don't kick yourself afterwards (I don't, and I may have blinded someone and got a kicking, all at the same time ;) )

P.P.S. if this is regular intimidation by the same person, I'd actually go for an all out attack - just the effort you put into it may help to curb the situation in future.

shadowedge
01-23-2007, 12:07 AM
My sensei taught me this:

When people try to intimidate you, the usually throw out negative Ki through their eyes. You, must ignore this by not allowing that negative Ki to enter your system. While at the same time, do not let your guard down, for as long as they are not within a dangerously close range, they can't do anything to you.

Don't forget the old Samurai principle ~ "Munen Mushin"


:)

Adam Alexander
01-26-2007, 01:15 PM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

What can you do? When someone's like that, they're just looking for someone to drag down. Do you want to be a hood-rat who let's his eye off the prize because some loser is baiting you?

I found that the more I trained, the less people were able to intimidate me and the less I cared about them trying to do so. The more confident I became in my abilities, the less I felt the need to defend them.

I think that if I were in your shoes I'd acknowledge to myself that I was afraid and that it's okay to be afraid. Acknowledge that the person who's trying to intimidate you may very well be better than you...at whatever. I found doing that is amazingly freeing.

Now, if you're like me, you can walk past the stares with a friendly smile...not smart-ass smile...friendly smile with a hello.

I think for helping with the fear, you can also think about what you're afraid of happening. Then, train for it. I have found that to make me feel good also.


It wasn't long ago that I'd say you should fight him and I'd give a list of 'macho' reasons that you 'must' do so. If you want to be scum, have at it. Believe me, this guy will get his. There's plenty of idiots like myself who at some point in our lives need to drag each other down to learn a lesson. Spare yourself the loss.

Adam Alexander
01-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Edit expired.

Just to make sense of what I wrote, what I meant was that after you acknowledge the fear, if you're like me, you're then able to smile in a friendly way.

However, I have had the experience over the last year where a person felt that my indifference was the green light to push me further. If they're calling you names, they response is "Yeah, that's true. What do you care?" If they say they'll get physical, the response is,"I hope not, I'd hate to lose a fight. Plus, whether I win or not, no one ever walks away from a fight without getting hit in the face."

Just my experience, but stuff like that seems to make people think.

Rod Yabut
01-26-2007, 06:07 PM
On the few occassions that this has happened to me, I did what Lynn just mentioned. Nod and smile...chances are they will at least nod back. IF they don't acknowledge this, then I would take Mark's advice - don't be there!

Freerefill
01-27-2007, 11:28 AM
This makes me think of something that happened just last night. After I had removed myself from the situation, I attempted to play it back with applied aikido, but I found myself at an utter loss.

Note that this entire thing happens online.

A friend of mine whom I chat with off and on and have known for about 2 years invited me to a Yahoo conference with a group of his. Apparently, he's part of an online "group" that gets together and chats now and then. If they do more than that, I can't say. Things went well at first. Most of the people were very kind and invitive. As the evening wore on, the people chatting started taking back a bit of alcohol. Among those was a guy named Alex who apparently knows a great deal about all the sleazy tricks one can do with Yahoo, including but not limited to hacking into your computer and activating your webcam without your knowledge. This put me on edge but I trusted my friend who brought me there because of what happened 2 years ago. My friend and I, plus a deal of our other friends, were in a situation with a similar person (on Yahoo) and it broke us apart. So with that trust, I stayed there and eventually forgot my fear.

That is, until the alcohol started kicking in. He verbally threatened one of the females in the club to get on her microphone and talk, because he liked the sound of her voice. When she didn't comply, he loaded up a program he has that lags a persons computer and attacked her with it. When she still didn't comply, he loaded it up again and told her that he was. When she finally did start speaking, the repressed resentment was very apparent. That was too much for me. I left without a word.

There were many things I would have liked to say to that guy, but I was afraid that he would damage my computer. And even if I had said things, he was intoxicated. Having dealt with drunk people on a regular basis I can tell you that they simply do NOT listen to reason or logic. So, he was an online drunk with the power to intimidate and threaten.

What would one do in this situation, especially in regards to aikido? I felt that leaving would get me safely out of harms way, but I had a great deal of trouble sleeping that night because I didn't vocalize my concerns or do anything to help the lady he was picking on. I feel bad that I just up and left. At the moment I didn't see what else I could do without getting myself burned, and I still can't.

Mark Uttech
01-28-2007, 05:25 AM
The cyberworld is just like a Pub/tavern. Use the same discretion you would in a regular Pub/tavern. A basic rule is to avoid troubled places, and more than that, to avoid them all after 10 pm.

In gassho

Mark

statisticool
01-31-2007, 05:29 AM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

Just think of how silly someone really is if they try to intimidate you by staring at you. Maybe next they'll beat their own chests and give out a primal howl.

Neil Mick
01-31-2007, 02:17 PM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them
cheers :ai: :ki: :do:

Laugh at their attempt. Worked for me in a pub, once.

George S. Ledyard
02-02-2007, 10:05 AM
Laugh at their attempt. Worked for me in a pub, once.
Actually, you need to match your response to the actegory of the aggression taking place.

Much violent behavior comes under the heading of "affective" violent behavior. It is the typical aggression between members of the same species. It is characterized by high emotional content and a lot of "dsiplay". This type of encounter can be handled by the strategies being mentioned above.

But another type of agressive behavior is the "predatory" type of aggression. All this "conflict resolution" stuff doesn't work on this type of agressive individual. Predatory violence is characterized by very low emotional content, virtually no display. The predator is looking for prey. The only form of conflict resolution is to not be prey. Much of the standard "giving in to get your way" conflict resolution technique is inappropriate with an individual of this type. They see it as indicating weakness and you just look better as a victim to them.

The good news is that most of the "intimidation" stuff you are talking about is a form of display. It is part of the "affective" aggressive bahavior pattern. If you don't mind not being the Alpha Dog, you can usually use the standard conflict resolution techniques on someone like this.

True predators are quite interesting. Unlike regular people who get fairly agitated when they decide to attack, thereby giving off quite few pre-attack indicators, the predator actually gets calmer when he decides to attack.Their heart beats can actually slow down and they have no emotional content to what they do (except what they choose to put on as an act). They are extremely dangerous.

Peyton Quinn has several books about self defense which deal extensively with real world violent interactions I highly recommend his work. He worked as a bouncer in a couple of Atlantic City biker bars and has survived a couple of knife attacks himself. Quite an interesting fellow. Did Aikido with Toyoda Sensei years ago along with an eclectic mix of other arts.

I remember talking to him about his background and he said he laughed when he heard folks say that Aikido didn't work... "it's amazing how well iriminage works when you bounce the guy's head off the bar." A bit "earthy" for many Aikido folks but if you are interested in real world self defense he has quite a lot to offer, especially on the topiv of threat recognition.

jimbaker
02-02-2007, 11:18 AM
I can't recall where I heard this:

A woman was taking a Japanese Shihan's seminar somewhere in the USA. She heard him say, "Aikido should be done with arrogance!". It was a bit shocking to her, but, as it was his seminar, she decided to give it a try. It worked wonderfully. Her techniques started to flow. She felt really in charge and everything went great. After the class, she went to her Sensei and told him about her breakthrough. He looked at her and said, "He said that Aikido should be done with elegance.".

As for tactics to deal with intimidation, you can always try the Cyrano method. You not only agree with them, you expand on the attack. Sort of like completely going with the attack. Kind of like Aikido. Exactly like Aikido.

Jim Baker

mriehle
02-07-2007, 05:39 PM
Actually, you need to match your response to the actegory of the aggression taking place.

Much violent behavior comes under the heading of "affective" violent behavior.

But another type of agressive behavior is the "predatory" type of aggression.

I like this distinction. A lot.

I've mostly encountered "affective" stuff and I'm happy about that. I've come to believe that when it becomes physical in those circumstances it's as much about my reaction as their aggression.

And bringing it to an end is usually about removing the motivation.

Edward
02-20-2007, 01:36 AM
I'm quite small at 5' 7" and have used the following line successfully a few times: You're obviously bigger and stronger than me, what do you have to gain by fighting with me. If you beat me, people will say you attacked a weaker guy, and if I accidentally beat you, you will be disgraced. It allowed me to avoid fights without completely loosing face.

Luc X Saroufim
03-05-2007, 07:59 AM
i'd like to share my opinion on this not because i'm a skilled martial artist but because i was a human punching bag from the 3rd grade to my senior year in high school. still though, i picked up some useful strategies.

- If someone's staring you down, don't look away and ignore it: it's the #1 sign of fear. "oh i wish you would just stop looking at me," is what you're telling them. someone else here mentioned looking confident, and they're right: look back at them, nod with a blank, confident look on your face, maintain posture, and walk straight ahead without looking down. don't be a tough guy, just be a guy that's proud to be who he is.

- if they taunt you, or call for your attention, don't ignore it: again, it's a sign of weakness. look straight at them and say something like, "sorry, gotta go" or something along those lines. my point is that as long as you say something back to them, you show them that you're not afraid, but you're not being aggressive either. just say anything, as long as it's innocent, and say it with confidence.

of course, this is all high school theatrics. if i was in a sketchy area, and someone looked at me, i wouldn't dare look back. i'd rather look weak than be dead.

i passed a group of guys up in Boston that ended up mugging me. it was my fault; i shouldn't have looked down and ignored them. i would've gotten a good look at their faces, which would discourage them from attacking me, and i showed weakness which would only encourage them more.

Tony Wagstaffe
03-15-2007, 05:50 AM
Working as I do as a cabbie we generally have to take the subserviant role... that is be kind, considerate and sensitive to the customers requirements. That is ok ..... until you meet an impatient driver on the course or the end of the journey who has become road raged because you have had to stop in an unavoidably inconveniant place to help an invalid customer in a wheelchair from the taxi to their front door and sometimes into the house if the weather is bad.
I face this situation on a regular basis.... usually the driver is male and aggressive and always abusive with ranting and raving about what they are going to do with you physically! My usual response is to smile nod and agree with everything they say and if actually verbally threatened with physical violence... I look them straight in the eye and respond with "Well I'm not stopping you govenor":) or say "I suppose your Father was a Carpenter wasn't he!" The 99.9% response is they just sometimes laugh deflate and wait. On the rare occasions that a driver has got out to try it on.... I intercepted with "I wouldn't do that If I were you govenor" the response every time time was "oh yeh and what the f***k are you gonna do about it".... my response was to stay still and calm as I could (feeling the adrenalin rush) said nothing but keep looking straight at them with a neutral attitude, hands at chudan, palms out.... the puffing of shoulders, quick movements, bearing of teeth and the usual hand gestures, aggressive pointing was the physical intimidation that something is about to happen.... that is the time I intercepted with an attack!... shomen ate or gyaku gamae ate sufficed beautifully as this puts them straight on their backsides, winded, with the minimum risk of injury. I always managed a strangled apology (your voice goes all thick) and said that they really didn't give me much choice. Either they were too deflated or too winded to do anything as the surprise of being "taken out" leaves them totally bewilderd!
That's when I have made my escape drove out of the way of harm, stopped and recovered from the shakes (the adrenalin dump) and immediately reported it to the police! So far no come backs! Similar scenarios have happened to me on three occasions in my 21 years as a cabbie. So they are rare.... thank goodness!
Now on the other hand at night when young punters are partially drunk, drunk or high on whatever obnoxius drug they have imbued are sometimes rude or aggressive or just being totally outrageous 'cause they haven't scored a leg over for the night! Usually they are eating and slopping a big fat kebab all over the place. This meets with a wry smile and impassive attitude. The doors are already locked so they can't get in.... unless they behave, wrap up their grub and do not give me a hard time, pay their fare! Either that or take a walk! ....they always do one or the other....
I sometimes think of writing a book on "The life of a cabbie that does aikido". Strange combination don't you think?:crazy: :eek:

Budd
03-15-2007, 10:05 AM
Thanks for sharing that, Tony. That is most definitely a book I would buy.

Ledyard Sensei, your description echoes the experiences I had bouncing and working in residential treatment facilities. In restraint situations in either case, the blustery folks that made a big production prior to us going hands on were often giving warning signs that enabled us (especially when there were multiple staff present) to essentially 'get ready' and choose our takedown spots.

The 'predators' as you describe, were much scarier in that they didn't always have the same 'tells' or visible points of escalation. They were much more likely to go from zero to full bore in a quicker period.

johnpetty
03-15-2007, 11:10 AM
This is my first post to this forum. I registered because I wanted to comment on Sensei Ledyard’s post. I work as a forensic evaluator for Corrections in my state’s prisons. Mostly I evaluate sex offenders, but I have on occasion also evaluated violent offenders such as persons convicted of aggravated domestic assault, murder, kidnapping, arson, etc. I wanted to build off what Sensei Ledyard mentioned. But first I need to assign some definitions, so please bear with me. In the ‘20s, career criminals were labeled “psychopaths,” but in the ‘50s such individuals were labeled “sociopaths.” Currently they would most likely fit the diagnosis of “Antisocial Personality Disorder.” Such individuals are basically career criminals.

However, nowadays about 15% of the world’s total population can be classified by a much different definition of the term psychopath. Briefly, psychopaths are responsible for most of the violent crime, do not tend to benefit from treatment, and have shorter “survival time” on the streets with higher recidivism rates than non-psychopaths. Dr. Robert Hare’s prototypical psychopath can best be described by the following. “Such individuals are perceived as glib and having a superficial charm. They exhibit a grandiose sense of self-worth. They use pathological lying, conning and manipulation to achieve their goals. They exhibit a lack of remorse or guilt, shallow affect, and a callous lack of empathy in their interactions with others. They fail to accept responsibility for their own behaviors. Their lifestyles are characterized as chronically unstable, antisocial, and socially deviant. Such individuals crave stimulation. They have poor behavioral controls, which often first became apparent at an early age, frequently including juvenile delinquency. They live a parasitic, aimless, impulsive, and irresponsible lifestyle. Such individuals frequently have had conditional releases revoked. They are at high risk for alcohol and substance abuse.”

There have been several interesting studies involving psychopathy. A 1992 study of wife batterers by Dutton identified 30% of the sample as psychopaths. The participants were observed/monitored during arguments with their spouses. Psychopaths demonstrated decreased heart rate during arguments, did not become emotionally aroused, but tended to focus on the spouse, much as a reptile locked its focus onto its prey before it strikes.

A 1991 laboratory study on psychopathy and affect by Williamson, Harpur, and Hare studied subjects from a Bronx Veteran’s Administration substance abuse program. They were injected with cerebral tracers and underwent computer imaging while being tested using lexical decisions in left and right ventricles. Huh???? That means they sat in front of two computer screens with each eye only being able to view one of the screens. They viewed various combinations of letters on the left side and numbers on the right. When an emotional word was spelled out on the left side (such as SAD), they were to click the mouse (with the right hand I believe). The psychopaths had the slowest reactions times. Meanwhile CAT scans were looking down on the subject's brain. All subjects demonstrated increased activity in the basic limbic system—the primitive brain sitting on top of the brain stem, but non-psychopaths also indicated significant activity in the cerebrum—the higher order part of the brain, dealing with language for example. These findings suggest psychopaths may view emotions much like a foreign language.

Another well-known psychologist in the violent/sexual offenders research/treatment field, Dr. Vernon Quinsey, referred to studies of Norse and Icelandic histories which referenced Kings employing “Berserkers.” Berserkers were the wild men portrayed as fearless fighters, foaming at the mouth and biting their shields. Someone you wanted on your side in a battle, not having to battle against. In those histories, if someone killed a family relative, it was expected that you either killed your relative’s killer or accepted a “blood payment.” In researching the histories, it was possible to determine who the berserkers were. When a berserker killed one of your relatives, you accepted the blood payment. Dr. Quinsey suggested that psychopathy was an advantage within an ancestral environment--as long as everyone wasn’t a psychopath. [Kind of a “wolf among sheep.”]

So yes, there are people out there that qualify as psychopaths—read predator. They are violent, often substance involved, and they see everyone other than themselves basically as sub-human.

Hope this wasn't too boring.

mikebalko
03-15-2007, 03:48 PM
I find it fascinating that the traits and abilities being described such as
-Being calm, centered, calculating and focused in conflict, exhibiting a lack of "morality", emotional attachment, fear, guilt, remorse, concern for future consequences of your actions or whether you survive at all as long as you take your enemies with you.

-Living your life as if wishing to die violently in combat at a relatively young age (gyuk sai) for the honour of your family/clan V.S. wasting away from a disease as a senior citizen.

as being part of a "psychopath's" psychological make up are almost identical to the descriptions of the ideal sought by the feudal samurai through asceticism, meditation and martial arts practice.

Interesting how some modern westerners label a person who is naturally this way as a deviant while not so long ago the elite of Japan dedicated their lives to emulating such a person.

P.S.

Has anyone else noticed a striking similarity between the gestures and hand signals used by modern day street gangs and the mudra practiced as part of koryu? I find it bizarre that uneducated gang members would adopt such an affectation in a similarly high stress environment without any historical or spiritual knowledge of its origins.

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/handsigns/menu_002.htm

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice&from=fulltext&full=aikido&num_notice=2&total_notices=2

http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/mudra.html

Another parallel would be ancient Japanese sword worship and “gun culture” as reflected in modern urban music.

gdandscompserv
03-15-2007, 04:30 PM
I find it fascinating that the traits and abilities being described such as
-Being calm, centered, calculating and focused in conflict, exhibiting a lack of "morality", emotional attachment, fear, guilt, remorse, concern for future consequences of your actions or whether you survive at all as long as you take your enemies with you.

-Living your life as if wishing to die violently in combat at a relatively young age (gyuk sai) for the honour of your family/clan V.S. wasting away from a disease as a senior citizen.

as being part of a "psychopath's" psychological make up are almost identical to the descriptions of the ideal sought by the feudal samurai through asceticism, meditation and martial arts practice.

Interesting how some modern westerners label a person who is naturally this way as a deviant while not so long ago the elite of Japan dedicated their lives to emulating such a person.

P.S.

Has anyone else noticed a striking similarity between the gestures and hand signals used by modern day street gangs and the mudra practiced as part of koryu? I find it bizarre that uneducated gang members would adopt such an affectation in a similarly high stress environment without any historical or spiritual knowledge of its origins.

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/handsigns/menu_002.htm

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice&from=fulltext&full=aikido&num_notice=2&total_notices=2

http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/mudra.html

Another parallel would be ancient Japanese sword worship and "gun culture" as reflected in modern urban music.
Certainly makes one think.

Lorien Lowe
03-16-2007, 02:59 AM
A woman was taking a Japanese Shihan's seminar somewhere in the USA. She heard him say, "Aikido should be done with arrogance!". It was a bit shocking to her, but, as it was his seminar, she decided to give it a try. It worked wonderfully. Her techniques started to flow. She felt really in charge and everything went great. After the class, she went to her Sensei and told him about her breakthrough. He looked at her and said, "He said that Aikido should be done with elegance.".

I am soo going to pass this on!

Charles Hill
03-16-2007, 04:05 AM
Hope this wasn't too boring.

This was an excellent, informative post. I sincerely hope you continue to post here. I would greatly appreciate any advice as to how to deepen my understanding of the topic you wrote about, any books, websites, etc?

Charles

willy_lee
03-16-2007, 03:16 PM
I find it fascinating that the traits and abilities being described ...
as being part of a "psychopath's" psychological make up are almost identical to the descriptions of the ideal sought by the feudal samurai through asceticism, meditation and martial arts practice.

Interesting how some modern westerners label a person who is naturally this way as a deviant while not so long ago the elite of Japan dedicated their lives to emulating such a person.


Ellis Amdur has written about this. Definitely something to think about, long and hard. Also interesting to read about the issues that soldiers have with their home lives when they return from what used be just called "the wars".


Has anyone else noticed a striking similarity between the gestures and hand signals used by modern day street gangs and the mudra practiced as part of koryu? I find it bizarre that uneducated gang members would adopt such an affectation in a similarly high stress environment without any historical or spiritual knowledge of its origins.


I like this guy's art a lot:
http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~tenmyoya/art_new/akumyou2.html

=wl

SeiserL
03-16-2007, 04:11 PM
A woman was taking a Japanese Shihan's seminar somewhere in the USA. She heard him say, "Aikido should be done with arrogance!". It was a bit shocking to her, but, as it was his seminar, she decided to give it a try. It worked wonderfully. Her techniques started to flow. She felt really in charge and everything went great. After the class, she went to her Sensei and told him about her breakthrough. He looked at her and said, "He said that Aikido should be done with elegance.".
IMHO, true elegance can be very intimidating. There is an internal intent and intensity that make makes it all look easy. What looks like arrogance to one (fear based) may appear as elegance to another (love based). Its all in the eye of the beholder.

SeiserL
03-16-2007, 04:20 PM
In the ‘20s, career criminals were labeled "psychopaths," but in the ‘50s such individuals were labeled "sociopaths." Currently they would most likely fit the diagnosis of "Antisocial Personality Disorder." Such individuals are basically career criminals.
Or politicians. Ops, same thing. :-)

IMHO, while it is easy to draws some general parallels sequentially between these labels, it would be wise to not to mix the labels/definitions as if interchangeable. The 11 different DSM-IV-TR Axis II personality disorders are very specific.

But, be afraid, be very afraid.

SeiserL
03-17-2007, 11:32 AM
Kept thinking, IMHO, an internal frame of reference as elegance or arrogance, will certainly make a difference in execution. Ki often follows intent.

johnpetty
03-18-2007, 07:56 AM
I disagree with Mr. Balko's comparision of feudal samurai with psychopathy. Granted I am no expert in samurai. I agree that both may share some characteristics such as lack of empathy/callousness--as in when testing the sharpness of one's sword on peasants, but I believe characteristics such as loyalty to one's lord, duty, budo as a purpose of life, and acceptance of responsibility would not be consistent with psychopathy. Also, my image of a samurai would not include characteristics such as pathological lying, conning/manipulativeness, early behavioral problems, or engaging in a wide range of various types of criminal activity. A samurai was an efficient instrument of his time.

My original reference to psychopathy in this post was to underscore that there are some individuals out there that for whatever reason may choose to focus their malevolence on you. Posturing in response to some such individuals could be a very bad decision unless one feels confident in a melee situation. One cannot easily make an assessment which persons those are.

I have been in a few situations outside of a work environment where most likely the other person would have come out rather high on the psychopathy scale. Where neither me or mine nor some other individual was the immediate focus, I moved to the periphery. In one emergency mental health situation where I was most certainly the focus, and the other man was bigger, drugged, and pulled a box cutter, (about five years before I began studying aikido), I can now see that I used verbal aikido to blend, deflect aggression, and take over the center. I then exited and contacted the police. Four of whom responded in an extremely professional and competent manner. Ultimately no one was seriously hurt.

I study aikido, not aikijutsu. Aikido has helped me with getting more out of my head, improved my balance and movement, self-confidence, and has increased my "spider sense" of potential dangers on my periphery. Mostly I would look to extricate myself from impending violence, but if I could not, I would not feel panicked. That's all I can say.

mikebalko
03-20-2007, 02:42 PM
I disagree with Mr. Balko's comparision of feudal samurai with psychopathy. Granted I am no expert in samurai. I agree that both may share some characteristics such as lack of empathy/callousness--as in when testing the sharpness of one's sword on peasants, but I believe characteristics such as loyalty to one's lord, duty, budo as a purpose of life, and acceptance of responsibility would not be consistent with psychopathy. Also, my image of a samurai would not include characteristics such as pathological lying, conning/manipulativeness, early behavioral problems, or engaging in a wide range of various types of criminal activity. A samurai was an efficient instrument of his time.

.
Would you label me a psychopath if I tested the sharpness of my blade on an innocent person? Loyalty to one's superior is still a part of modern day organized crime families, all of which employ total psychos. Regarding duty, in the Cosa Nostra when someone is marked for death a brother or childhood friend is often sent. I'm not sure that the path the feudal era samurai followed could be classified as budo in the modern sense of the word. I found that in researching the power struggles and conflicts of the time the romantic image of the samurai held by most was inaccurate.Cunning, manipulativeness and treachery, especially when one found himself on the losing side were not only common but often decided the outcome of the battle.The violent training engaged in by samurai children would be considered early beahavioral problems today, which explains the dojo/daycare phenomenon. Feudalism = survival through criminal activity, mainly extortion and murder. A samurai was an efficient instrument, much like someone who collects a debt or does a hit for a gang, or a cop or soldier who provides muscle for those politicians Lynn mentioned to profit is an efficient instrument.

ryujin
03-26-2007, 05:37 PM
There is a lot of good tidbits here,

I worked as a bouncer for year to earn extra cash and getting to see some good bands for free didn't hurt. When confronting people who where acting inappropriately I was very nice to them. They would try to intimidate, puff out their chest, swear, yell and all that, but in the end, treating them nicely brought them back down and they would leave on their own two feet. I even had a few people come back the next day and thank me for being nice. I'd say this worked on about 99% of them.

A good choke hold worked on the other 1%. :D

Phil Van Treese
05-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Personally, I don't make eye to eye contact with someone that is "staring me down" but I do use my periphial (sp?) vision to keep my eye on him. If he approaches me, I have my spots picked out. Sometimes you can avoid confrontation by just leaving the area. Try to avoid a confrontation but if you can't, teach him aikido!!!!!

Suru
05-10-2009, 04:28 PM
I read in one of William Reed's or Kochi Tohei's books that when stared down, gaze at the middle of the other's forehead, just above the eyes. The person will soon lose interest.

I've done this successfully twice that I can recall, and it has worked like a charm. Perhaps it somehow unnerves the aggressor and makes him want to look elsewhere.

Now, this might not apply so perfectly to someone who is truly, aggressively psychotic, but like I said, I've had success with it. As far as psycho- and sociopaths, they make up 1% and 3% of the population, respectively. When I lived in St. Pete a couple years ago, I was on a poetry crusade and this is one I wrote back then. Psychologists believe there is no hope for these people, and they could be correct indeed. Sometimes I find it easy, and sometimes I find it difficult, to think they have any hope...I just try to believe that everyone has Buddha-nature, or inner-perfection corroded by ignorance.

Sociopathogen

Armed with charm
And replete with deceit,
Those without conscience
Most certainly exist.
Psychologists call them sociopaths,
And folklore names them vampires.
Their sinking of fangs into throats
Is their sapping of positive thought,
To convert the insecure to darkness.
Indeed an infectious disease—a contagion—is among us.
Established deeply and snowballing over time
Is their illusory dichotomous mentality:
Power versus weakness.
Their only cure resides in recognition of self-wrongfulness.
Precious few who seek healing survive—with anguish they comprehend
How many moments they have envenomed others,
As they bear a slowly melting iceberg of shame immeasurable.
But he who succeeds in thawing this burden,
And freeing himself from antisocial chains,
Will be showered in respect to an extent he never dreamt.

Drew

Jamie Barthelemy
10-16-2009, 04:17 AM
this is a great topic! even if it is old I would like to put mah two cents in please. =)

when i was a little kid i was a mean kid so i kind of think of intimidation differently.
when someone is trying to intimidate you, they are probably also trying to work themselves up.
the thing that has worked for me through many situations is to just be in control of whats going on..
if some one says something negative to you..

honestly question it, like a child would. try to ask them if ther is a problem and express your apology for whatever you have done ( even if you were minding your own.) remember, saying or doing ANYTHING out of ego is just proof that you want a fight.

its very hard to get over some of the feelings that come from being intimidated, or worse, bullied, but you must tell yourself the truth, which is that you are both humans and if there is a problem then it behooves you to dissolve it.

if this person is only trying to mess with your head then you should be able to pick up on that in a conversation.

if this person is truly looking for a fight and you can avoid it.. then avoid it..

if at anytime something escalates to a physical confrontation then remember to keep yourself in check,.. until he/she tries to harm you, in which case,
keep your head up, your chin down, and have no doubts that you will laugh at the end of the day XD
let me use some smileys to illustrate how i feel about violence.

if you think you are gonna get picked on, you will likely feel :( , or :freaky:, or even :sorry: :hypno: .... but don't worry, because take it from someone who has had their fare share of pain from other people. you will never actually feel like :uch: . that person or persons is/are only human.

but if you let them control your mindset with negativity, then later you will be.:straightf then..:disgust: then :mad: and then :grr:

sorry for the ramble.. i guess what i mean from all this is STAY :cool:
i hope this made at least a tiny bit of sense.

jonreading
10-16-2009, 12:04 PM
what is the best action to take if someone is deliberately trying to intimidatte you eg staring etc
and is defiinitiely looking for trouble
and how can you help stop yourself becoming intimidated by them

Similar to other posts, you have to assess whether the intimidation is social or predetory. I think Ledyard Sensei has some better terminolgy...

I remember several incidents that involved predetory behavior. In those cases the intimidation engagement was entriely distraction while other persons moved into an attack position. After a few of these "jumpings" I learned quickly not to focus on a single individual but use a more peripheral view. Also, I was "chosen" to be jumped, and my actions did not cause the group to abort the intended plan.

On the other hand, the social intimidation (classic bully) situations I encountered did not require a guarded fight position, but rather a non-intimidated response to demostrate the intimidation was ineffective.

Darren Bannister
11-04-2009, 12:08 PM
What to do when intimidated? This is a tricky question that reaches far beyond just Aikido. when looking at some of the other responses it is clear that what you do is a very individualized decision.

For me I see intimidation tactics daily in what I do for a living and as such can't give into these tactics. Each case is different whereby some are best tackled head on and drawing the proverbial line in the sand for your aggressor never to cross. Other cases require a kid glove like approach. Regardless of the situation, it is normal to have your heart in your throat and be scared as heck, overcomming this is a victory in it's self.

At the end of the day dealing with intimidation requires that you have the where with all to know what your limits and or boundries are. Don't get in over your head.

Tim Gerrard
02-10-2010, 10:06 AM
To paraphrase a Yoshinken Sensei (apologies I forget his name)

A martial artist goes through 3 stages:
1. "I wonder if I could beat him in a fight"
2. "What would I do if he attacked with a particular technique"
3. "Give it your best shot."

So my advice is, if you're confident enough in your training acknowledge them in a friendly manner, but be prepared to choose your battle and keep an eye on possible escape routes!

George S. Ledyard
02-15-2010, 12:25 PM
On a more practical level, ignore eye contact (unless you want a fight), but don't shy away - just get on with what you are doing. Interestingly with many animals, often strong males will make eye contact which may be a precursor to a fight. However, a child can make prolonged eye contact with a adult male and the male will just ignore it (because it isn't even considered a threat)..

Most predatory types are opportunists. In other words they are looking for the weak one in the heard. If someone has enough "juice" to scare you, don't look in his eye. O-Sensei warned the young deshi about this. He said something along the lines of do not look your opponent in the eye as he will steal your spirit.

On the other hand, what did O-Sensei do? He looked them in the eye and stole their spirit. This is why I have my students look at their partners eyes so they can learn to do this. One can always choose not to based on the situation.

Two things are usually present for the predatory type to decide to make his move. a) you don't look like you are paying attention, so he feels he can "ambush" you, and b) you look scared when he puts off his aggressive vibes. So, let him know that you are, in fact, aware of what might be comi9ng and aren't "open". This can be done by assuming a strong integrated posture, preferably not an aggressive stance and making sure the potential aggressor knows you are aware of him. Also, if you can pull it off while being calm and not fearful, do look him in the eye. Most of these guys are used to being aggressive and expect to see fear when they try to intimidate. When fear isn't present it tells them something isn't right about their plan.

However, it is very important to not be aggressive yourself when doing this. If you make it impossible for him to back off without losing face, in his own mid or with his buddies, he will almost certainly attack and now he knows you know something.

An alternative is the opposite. You pretend you are not aware of him, don't make eye contact, and let him think he has you and then decisively end it.

You have to know in advance what your options are so that you can make the best decisions "in the instant". There's no set approach and faking it won't work. Any good predator can see through that. If you don't have any technique behind you, as Lynn S pointed out, then you'd better jsut get away fast because you will not be able to stand there without being afraid and without being aggressive.

MarkWatson
03-15-2010, 04:39 PM
Hi Folks.

I'd just like to start off by saying I am a 17 yr old male living in West Scotland (murder capital, yet the friendliest city in Europe, past me :P) and I look like a tall, beefy guy with one of those faces that people seem to dislike ( bare with me here folks I am going somewhere with this:P ).

I am one for the intellectual approach to things with some logic thrown in there for good measure but growing up in today's society in the 'playstation generation' intellectualism has no place when dealing with Brutes and quite frankly, societies parasites.

Through my personal experiences, when feeling intimidated, be intimidating. Don't let your self be intimidated. Combative psychology Hints on this I believe. Dont think about how someone is going to hurt you but how your going to slam him into the ground. This is now the Aikido way i know and i do feel guilty writing what i am but this is what i believe. I also believe that if someone is adamant about hurting you, Iwama Ryu Aikido which i practice is not practical. The morals and beliefs it instills in you however is something i believe that all of society could use.

MarkWatson
03-16-2010, 08:01 AM
This is now the Aikido way
EDIT ****

I meant to say this is NOT the Aikido way.

Apologies

genin
07-26-2011, 11:04 AM
Typically most fights are started by aggressive, type A males. Usually it's mainly intimidation as much as anything else, as NOBODY wants to end up in jail for brawling in public. So guys like this will often puff up and make a lot of noise, but rarely will they initiate the violence.

Now saying these things might very well get you fought, so be careful. But if they are looking at you crazy, then say something to you like "What you looking at son!?" You can reply, "OHHHH, your're a tough guy. That's what this is. For a minute I thought you were gay and were hitting on me." They really hate that one.

Then if you get a guy who gets real aggressive and in your face, calling you names and what not, just assume you'll be fighting soon and take your fighting stance. Then no matter what he says next, say: "Then do something coward." And just repeat that over and over again, letting him know that he is a coward until he either fights you, or walks away and shuts up.

It may seem like these things would incite someone to violence, but it is actually used to make peope look and feel stupid. Most guys aren't going to fight, but many will bark and pound their chests in order to try to intimidate you and make themselves look cool. You have to remind them that it's all talk and all show if they are not willing to combat you over it.

Aikironin21
11-22-2011, 01:49 AM
I don't know if you can "keep from being intimidated". I mean, you're either intimidated or you're not, right?

So am I to be considered a psychopath, because I have no adrenaline rush and actually get calmer as things get chaotic? The last Yard riot I was involved in, many said they thought we were conducting a drill because my voice was so calm. When incidences occur I usually take control, because I seem to be able to think more clear and slow everybody down.

When the average street thug is staring you down (mad dogging), it is commonly accepted that he who reacts first is the (punk). If you laugh, you lose. If you look away, you lose. If you talk, you lose. You really do have to work or live around these types to understand what is going on with them. The thug isn't staring at you to provoke you. He is trying to assert his dominance and let you know he is top dog on that train or wherever. It's a facade. The guys that are really about it, wont even acknowledge you and would prefer to be unnoticed in most social situations. Maintaining eye contact isn't really disrespect. When violence follows the mug session, it's usually associated with some sort of disrespect after. The guy that couldn't hang does something to mask his insecurity with a gesture and the peeing contest is on till one or both escalates to violence to preserve his standing or save face. I have never broke eye contact even on the street with the thug type. My mother has always said I don't look at, but through people though.That's just my normal gaze. I also have a facial tick that causes one cheek to spasm which makes on of my eyes seem to close intermittently. I guess it can be a little off putting to someone trying to stare me down.

gates
11-22-2011, 03:48 AM
Simple just use your inner Jedi like Derren Brown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEuKgEjwi6A

Demetrio Cereijo
11-22-2011, 04:27 AM
Simple just use your inner Jedi like Derren Brown:
And if that doesnt work, then punch him:

Derren Brown - Mind Controlling Punch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgQIGKDR9Mk)

Janet Rosen
11-22-2011, 10:15 AM
I don't know if you can "keep from being intimidated". I mean, you're either intimidated or you're not, right?

So am I to be considered a psychopath, because I have no adrenaline rush and actually get calmer as things get chaotic? The last Yard riot I was involved in, many said they thought we were conducting a drill because my voice was so calm. When incidences occur I usually take control, because I seem to be able to think more clear and slow everybody down.

re 1.: You can experience feelings that tell you that are experiencing being intimidated. You can also override the feelings (not struggle against them, just accept them and not be ruled by them) and show no outward reflection of the feeling you have and act based on not allowing them to rule you.

re 2. Not psychopathic. Besides training to deal with stuff, not all people are wired the same. Some don't have typical adrenaline rush in situations the majority would, and some have parasympathetic response instead of sympathetic (slow pulse, dropped BP, etc).

Michael Neal
11-22-2011, 01:23 PM
I know a lot of people don't like competition but I have found Judo competition to be very helpful dealing with the adrenaline dump. When I was younger I would get an uncontrollable rush of adrenaline but now I remain relatively calm.

After a several years of Judo I had someone try for 10 minutes straight to intimidate me by posturing, circling around me, staring, talking smack etc. I remained calm and I had a very slight adrenaline dump but it was just enough to quicken my reflexes a little, it didn't take control over me. It was similar to having a couple cups of coffee. The key thing I think is actually being ready to fight if you have to, I was comfortable with that prospect.

I was calm with him and was even slightly arrogant towards him at a certain point. At the end I invited him to come to my wrestling class and we could spar, he promptly left. I think wrestling works better than saying Judo, more people know what wrestling is and Judo is a type of wrestling anyway.

In order to remain I calm you have to be able to resign yourself to fighting if necessary. At least that is what works for me.

Aikironin21
11-22-2011, 10:36 PM
I agree with the your view on competition, or at least some active resistance in sparring. You don't have to go all out to test your techniques. You definitely need some active resistance and attempts to counter or stifle your techniques. This is where Aikido draws a lot of flack from outsiders. The compliant partner practice comes under attack because those who never progress beyond it, assume what will work and wont under resistance.

How does this relate to intimidation? Well, if you tussle around with actively resisting or attacking uke, or competitors in say Judo or other systems, you have the confidence to know, what your high percentage techniques are, and which ones you will stay away from. In short, you have a solid game plan complete with audibles for the what ifs. You are sure in your techniques and have tested them. When you have someone bringing the potential for physical confrontation to you, you are less likely to be uncertain of yourself and therefore be less likely to be intimidated.

gates
11-22-2011, 11:51 PM
If you are ignorant that your techniques won't work, but full of confidence that they will, surely you will still give off the same level of confident body language, whether it will actually work or not. And therefore for intimidation it will work the same way, and you will only become unstuck when it develops beyond mere intimidation. Obviously false confidence is a dangerous thing, and could lead you into all sorts of trouble, but acting confidently, even if you know you cant back it up has got to be better than not.

Also having tested your skills are you then more or less likely to try and use them? Maybe this is why takeda said of aiki 'the secret of Aiki is to overpower your opponent at a glance and to win without fighting' mind you, doesnt work on taxi drivers

Alberto_Italiano
04-15-2012, 06:13 AM
Much violent behavior comes under the heading of "affective" violent behavior. It is the typical aggression between members of the same species. It is characterized by high emotional content and a lot of "dsiplay". This type of encounter can be handled by the strategies being mentioned above.

But another type of agressive behavior is the "predatory" type of aggression. All this "conflict resolution" stuff doesn't work on this type of agressive individual. (...)

True predators are quite interesting. Unlike regular people who get fairly agitated when they decide to attack, thereby giving off quite few pre-attack indicators, the predator actually gets calmer when he decides to attack .(...)

I love this guy's posts :)
Indded, this is exactly what happens.
A competent attacker will give you no sign of his incoming attack. That's why, under a psychologial point of view, he's called competent.

There are two more techniques that are even worst, and you should be aware of them:
1) the predator has a verbal brawl with you. Then he feigns he wants to get over with it. He produces all the signs of sincere hearthfelt will to fix the situation and possibily label it as a misunderstanding.
At that point, to seal the reached "peace" he may offer a drink to you. They can be pretty clever and coldheaded and seem utterly sincere.
As soon as you sip it, or after the first few sips, he will hit you with a punch directed to the bottom of the glass and devastate your face.
I have seen this happening (twice, and do you know who was the second attacker? a lady...).
2) you have a very minor verbal exchange. You keep having fun with your friends, and that person you had that minor exchange with is nowehere to be seen or seems intent to his own business, maybe even having a good time with his friends somewhere else in the bar.
Yet, he has kept an eye on you all the time. Indeed, he is waiting for you to be intoxicated and alone. He did not deem it "minor"...
You will be followed, and attacked, in the parking lot... or in the restrooms...

gregstec
04-15-2012, 06:17 PM
I love this guy's posts :)
Indded, this is exactly what happens.
A competent attacker will give you no sign of his incoming attack. That's why, under a psychologial point of view, he's called competent.

There are two more techniques that are even worst, and you should be aware of them:
1) the predator has a verbal brawl with you. Then he feigns he wants to get over with it. He produces all the signs of sincere hearthfelt will to fix the situation and possibily label it as a misunderstanding.
At that point, to seal the reached "peace" he may offer a drink to you. They can be pretty clever and coldheaded and seem utterly sincere.
As soon as you sip it, or after the first few sips, he will hit you with a punch directed to the bottom of the glass and devastate your face.
I have seen this happening (twice, and do you know who was the second attacker? a lady...).
2) you have a very minor verbal exchange. You keep having fun with your friends, and that person you had that minor exchange with is nowehere to be seen or seems intent to his own business, maybe even having a good time with his friends somewhere else in the bar.
Yet, he has kept an eye on you all the time. Indeed, he is waiting for you to be intoxicated and alone. He did not deem it "minor"...
You will be followed, and attacked, in the parking lot... or in the restrooms...

Very true - when you insult and piss someone off, not too many people can roll over and let it go; most people will want some form of retaliation. Those that wear their emotions on their sleeve, will immediately engage - however, those that are calculating and sneaky, like most predators, will set you up in some way that they think is clever as well as put them in a less risky position to increase their odds of success in the retaliation - I have seen it often throughout my Naval career when spending time in the rougher establishments of the ports we visited :)

Greg

genin
04-25-2012, 10:15 AM
I'm not sure what this qualifies as, but I'll post it here. I was walking to the store this weekend and I came across a teenager up ahead. For some reason the kid started attacking the road signs on the side of this bridge. I couldn't tell if he was doing this for my benefit since he saw me approaching, or if he was going to do it anyway for whatever reason. It came to the point where I was going to have to literally walk right past him while he was doing spin kicks and punches on these signs, very spastically I might add. I'm not sure if he was trying to intimidate me, but it became clear that he wanted to involve me in whatever he was doing. I mean, typically if you were vandalizing public property and a stranger walked up, you'd stop.

In true form, my strategy is not to win a potential conflict, but to circumvent it. So I continued on toward this kid and then at the last moment I veered to the left and past under the bridge, avoiding him altogether. He obviously could tell that this was a deliberate move, and I anticipated that he wouldn't be able to let that go without acknowledging my actions. I kept walking as though I never even factored him in, then I hear "Oh, it's okay, I'm straight bro..." And no sooner did he say that then he moved on about his business down the road. Clearly, he was looking to elicit a reaction from me, and when that was not forthcoming, he had to settle for another attempt to get my attention.

It was one of those weird deals where I couldn't tell if this was just a goofy teenager "look at me" type thing, or if this was some sort of strange aggressive intimidation tactic. Just thought I'd share that experience for what it's worth.

Abasan
04-27-2012, 06:58 AM
Wow. That's a pretty universal event I guess. The first is known to me and I can only hope extending ki the way koichi tohei advocates in his book actually prevents the glass making a larger hole in your mouth. Whenever in doubt I remind myself of the story of that aikidoka who drove his car down a cliff but kept his extension of ki and relaxed elbows eventually finding himself holding on to a crumpled steering but with nary an injury.

The 2nd, well the smart thing to do was to leave and find another place. Or even smarter, don't get drunk. Osensei admonishes drinking too much. And we can clearly see the result of drunkenness even in high level aikidoka such as Tohei who could have very well ended up paralyzed were it not for luck and Kiatsu.

I love this guy's posts :)
Indded, this is exactly what happens.
A competent attacker will give you no sign of his incoming attack. That's why, under a psychologial point of view, he's called competent.

There are two more techniques that are even worst, and you should be aware of them:
1) the predator has a verbal brawl with you. Then he feigns he wants to get over with it. He produces all the signs of sincere hearthfelt will to fix the situation and possibily label it as a misunderstanding.
At that point, to seal the reached "peace" he may offer a drink to you. They can be pretty clever and coldheaded and seem utterly sincere.
As soon as you sip it, or after the first few sips, he will hit you with a punch directed to the bottom of the glass and devastate your face.
I have seen this happening (twice, and do you know who was the second attacker? a lady...).
2) you have a very minor verbal exchange. You keep having fun with your friends, and that person you had that minor exchange with is nowehere to be seen or seems intent to his own business, maybe even having a good time with his friends somewhere else in the bar.
Yet, he has kept an eye on you all the time. Indeed, he is waiting for you to be intoxicated and alone. He did not deem it "minor"...
You will be followed, and attacked, in the parking lot... or in the restrooms...