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TonyI
01-15-2007, 08:14 AM
This is a video Christmas card a young student who is 5th Kyu sent to her grandmother, she is demonstrating primarily Aiki Nage and Irimi Nage. Our Sensei is looking for some feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4rnMzjRMUQ

raul rodrigo
01-15-2007, 09:19 AM
Thats a 5th kyu?

mrfeldmeyer
01-15-2007, 09:32 AM
Yeah,

I have to say I'm a little surprised she is a 5th kyu also.

thinking
01-15-2007, 10:56 AM
is 5th kyu not a white belt? She looks to be in brown or black strange!!!!

Michael McCaslin
01-15-2007, 11:05 AM
She might be 5th kyu, but her uke's aren't.

Not to detract from what she is doing, but you have to keep these things in mind or you risk losing perspective.

TonyI
01-15-2007, 11:15 AM
In our Dojo the ranking system is

Beginner is White
7 Kyu is Yellow
6 Kyu is Yellow
5 Kyu is Green
4 Kyu is Green
3 Kyu is Brown
2 Kyu is Brown
1 Kyu is Brown

She started training a little less then a year ago and this is her only martial art experience.

thinking
01-15-2007, 11:20 AM
She might be 5th kyu, but her uke's aren't.

We all can tell her uke's are not, but then we are not talking about the uke's....

Ketsan
01-15-2007, 11:21 AM
Yup not bad for a 5th kyu. Good ukemi.

aikidoc
01-15-2007, 11:38 AM
Some organizations use white all the way to 1st kyu-then black. Belt is not an indicator.

justin
01-15-2007, 01:30 PM
quite hard to work out in any detail the video with all the special effects or editing going on.

Gregy
01-15-2007, 05:57 PM
She looked great.

Tell Brian he's a pussy.

Thalib
01-15-2007, 08:53 PM
5th kyu?

Wow...

She's better than I am...

Her shikko (膝行)is pretty good...

NagaBaba
01-15-2007, 09:03 PM
This is a video Christmas card a young student who is 5th Kyu sent to her grandmother, she is demonstrating primarily Aiki Nage and Irimi Nage. Our Sensei is looking for some feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4rnMzjRMUQ
Good general feeling as for one year beginner.

However, her way receiving yokoment is very big mistake and she did it few times - it may indicate she was taught such way.
Other think is lack of posture -- after one year she should have good posture.It will be now very difficult to develop.

She did few sutemi-like throws and I believe it is too early for her even if she is gifted person. The mechanique of this throw is complelty different, it is simply too difficult for her.

The fact that flying uke uke are doing all job for her in all these techniques may build false confidence in her head, and surely helps to develop bad technique.

But I said, for one year practice it is quite good.

Erik Calderon
01-15-2007, 09:31 PM
I enjoyed watching this clip. It looks like she trains often and hard.

xuzen
01-15-2007, 11:46 PM
Comparing what she does to some of the those 10th DANn Soke-Doke No Touch Ki Blast Losers... I think she is doing better aikido.

Just a note: I see she is doing a lot of Yoko-yaware (Judo'esque sutemi-waza)... if she would drop down more abrupt and bridge a little and turn to the throwing direction, she would be getting Ippons! :D

Boon.

Tinyboy344
01-16-2007, 12:27 AM
man... 5th Kyu... I don't think she was 5th Kyu at all.... couldn't be, it's either she's suuuper talented or she's been training 24/7 since the beginning....

RoyK
01-16-2007, 04:19 AM
I'm gonna save this movie and show it to everyone who says Aikido takes too much time to learn :)

She must have a very good instructor.

stelios
01-16-2007, 05:11 AM
No way she is 5th qyu.Absolutely no way. But then again, if she is, we are looking at a rare talent with the brightest future!

Coz:UK
01-16-2007, 05:44 AM
I bet her grandmother is really proud :)

OK, so it's been a bit coreographed but for one year's experience that's still pretty good by my reckoning.

TonyI
01-16-2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks for all the feed back, this girl trains 4 nights a week and our class size is small so we can dedicate individual attention. The video may seemed choreographed but all demonstrations and testing are done free form, nage does not know which attacks they are receiving. We do our best to keep it as realistic as possible.

Ron Tisdale
01-16-2007, 08:47 AM
No way I was that good at her level of experience. Kudos to her and her instructor. Stephanes criticisms are spot on...but hey, who cares? At her level/competance, the posture thing (most important) should not be that hard to retrain. She should be carefull using those sutemi without the things Boon noted if the uke is not compliant.

Best,
Ron

Mark Jakabcsin
01-16-2007, 08:50 AM
The video may seemed choreographed but all demonstrations and testing are done free form, nage does not know which attacks they are receiving. We do our best to keep it as realistic as possible.

Tony,
At the begining when she is in seiza and the attackers are running at her what is that attack? I.E. if she did not move what would happen, how would the attackers finish their attacks? I ask this question in all honesty as I have seen this many times and for the life of me I can not figure out the advantage to such an attack or why anyone would run that hard at a person on his/her knees.

As for the clip I agree with S-pan above that her posture needs attention. At times it is fine at other times it is weak. Nice clip and keep training.

MJ

batemanb
01-16-2007, 09:27 AM
No way I was that good at her level of experience......



And now Ron ;) :D :D :D

Ron Tisdale
01-16-2007, 09:40 AM
Hey, the truth hurts...but there it is. Whatcha' gonna do? ;)

Best,
Ron

raul rodrigo
01-16-2007, 09:48 AM
Same here. After a year of training I felt like I could barely get out of my own way on the mat. Which is why my first reaction was, "That's a fifth kyu?"

Roman Kremianski
01-16-2007, 10:04 AM
Grr, I hate Aikido clips with flashy effects and rock music. Just leave it as it is, and don't cut after every throw! :(

Looks good overall, even though the ukes are quite nice.

Cady Goldfield
01-16-2007, 10:36 AM
Sorry to be a wet blanket ;) but, her ikkyo and sankyo are very weak, as are her pins. She can't keep her uke pinned. She also does not maintain fudoshin, instead having an "okay, I'm done with that technique...can I go now?" posture and attitude, which should not be done even when one knows that one is supposed to let another attack happen for the camera. She has talent, but it would behoove her instructors and sempai to help her get her basics down before pushing her on to advanced stuff. It looks like she is encouraged to resort to flashier things without paying proper attention to the important foundation.

But, it's fun to watch a young girl trash big guys... :D

Michael McCaslin
01-16-2007, 10:44 AM
We all can tell her uke's are not (5th kyu), but then we are not talking about the uke's....

That was my point, Matthew. In any technique demonstration if you don't consider how uke is shaping the interaction you're working with only half of the information available. Uke often has as much or more to do with how a technique "looks" as nage does.

MM
01-16-2007, 01:01 PM
Overall, she's pretty good. Couple of points, though. You did want feedback.

Might be that things are rushed, but I'd say that her ... I guess you'd call it hanmi handachi and shikko ... isn't great. But, she's 5th kyu, so it isn't supposed to be. :) Still, it's an area that needs to be worked on. Example, her feet are flat on their sides with toes pointed outside. Looks weird. You can see an example at 1:20.

As other people have noted, posture and pins.

My overall biggest irritation with the video is the person who put it together. Egads, I felt like a child that needed a flash and a change every .25 seconds. ;) Personally, I hate the quick, flashy, change stuff so that's why it was my biggest complaint.

Otherwise, a nice demo from a 5th kyu. Great job!

odudog
01-16-2007, 02:41 PM
She needs to move her feet more. It looks to me that she is standing there in one spot as the attack comes in. If by chance she were to miss redirecting the attack with her hands, what would she do then?

Tom Fish
01-16-2007, 03:03 PM
I think for her rank she is doing quite well and most importantly she appears to be enjoying it. She has a lifetime of study in front of her and seems to be someplace where she has some good instruction. I hope she posts another video next year and I hope she enjoys training for many years to come. Good luck to her and everyone else who loves Aikido.
Best ,Tom

senshincenter
01-16-2007, 07:54 PM
I'm with Tom here - exactly.

You know, reading this thread, it's a bit strange. Lots of "you're not perfect" and/or "you got room for improvement" - even a few, "you're doing it wrong" kind of statements. Geesh - let he or she that this does not apply to step forward! lol

I tend NOT to see folks that are posting videos of their art/practice as folks that are saying, "Look at me, I'm perfect." I see them as sharing. I was always taught, as I teach my children now, when someone shares something of theirs, you should simply be grateful. I can't stand it when my daughter shares something that is important to her with her brother (or vice versa) and then he says, "Man, I wanted the other one!" or "I wanted the bigger piece!" Somehow that seems entirely out of place. In this case, sure, they asked for feedback, but really, what else is there to say but "keep working," and adding encouragement whenever we can. I'm not out to scold anyone, but I think it is worth it to look at how many negative comments are being given in the face of the obviousness we all are facing (that we all have room for improvement).

MM
01-17-2007, 09:13 AM
I'm with Tom here - exactly.

You know, reading this thread, it's a bit strange. Lots of "you're not perfect" and/or "you got room for improvement" - even a few, "you're doing it wrong" kind of statements. Geesh - let he or she that this does not apply to step forward! lol

I tend NOT to see folks that are posting videos of their art/practice as folks that are saying, "Look at me, I'm perfect." I see them as sharing. I was always taught, as I teach my children now, when someone shares something of theirs, you should simply be grateful. I can't stand it when my daughter shares something that is important to her with her brother (or vice versa) and then he says, "Man, I wanted the other one!" or "I wanted the bigger piece!" Somehow that seems entirely out of place. In this case, sure, they asked for feedback, but really, what else is there to say but "keep working," and adding encouragement whenever we can. I'm not out to scold anyone, but I think it is worth it to look at how many negative comments are being given in the face of the obviousness we all are facing (that we all have room for improvement).

Hi David,
Hope you're doing well. Good to see you posting again.

I thought the vid posted had its ups and downs, just like we all do in real life. :) Like I mentioned, she looked good in parts and not so good in parts. I guess what I see on the not so good areas are places that I've personally had trouble, like posture and pins. And I still have trouble there. So, yeah, I won't step forward. lol.

But, if we just say keep working, then no one gets any specific information on where to keep working. So, it's nice to get some constructive feedback on areas that one sees, IMO anyway.

Mark

Basia Halliop
01-17-2007, 11:36 AM
In this case, sure, they asked for feedback, but really, what else is there to say but "keep working," and adding encouragement whenever we can. I'm not out to scold anyone, but I think it is worth it to look at how many negative comments are being given in the face of the obviousness we all are facing (that we all have room for improvement).

Our Sensei is looking for some feedback.

It's interesting how people interpret things different ways. What I read here is a ton of very warm praise and some very specific feedback (ie, containing enough specific pointers to actually be useful). If I went out of my way and specifically asked someone for feedback on something (Aikido or anything else) and all anyone gave me was some vague 'keep working' I'd probably be slightly frustrated or disappointed - while it's nice to hear sometimes, my mom could tell me that. Not everyone feels as you do!

NagaBaba
01-17-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm with Tom here - exactly.

You know, reading this thread, it's a bit strange. Lots of "you're not perfect" and/or "you got room for improvement" - even a few, "you're doing it wrong" kind of statements. Geesh - let he or she that this does not apply to step forward! lol
.
From first post looks like her instructor is looking for feedback. So it has nothing to do with encouraging her personally or not. Very probably she doesn't even know about our disscussion :D

So it is very natural to give some pointers, particulalry when a teacher has talented student and get excited how great she is. Or may be he is lost and doesn't know how to teach her? It is very clear that her basics are very weak, and high ranking uke are trying to hide it by jumping around like crazy -- and this fact is a big obstacle to her future developpement.

Beginners must learn how to throw/pin not tanking uke, even at their 5th kyu level. It not need to be fast,perfect, or powerful, but I want to see clean, good quality throws/pins.

senshincenter
01-17-2007, 11:22 PM
Yes, this all makes sense, but should we expect anything else from a person that readily states or that it is stated about (that) they are of beginner rank and with few years (or less) of training? Additionally, really, how much real progress does one make from a few suggestions that some folks on an internet site made? I mean, I get where folks were coming from, but on the other hand, I'm curious of where there really is to go. This is without allowing for stylistic differences - which are really a huge factor when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong within a given set of training assumptions. Like is this bad posture and weak pins?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKT8sswEnKw

For me, saying, "good job, keeping going," is not a choice of a number of things that one can or should say here, it's the only thing. Why? Because I don't expect a beginner not to make the mistakes she was making, and I don't expect my comments to correct them. This is just another point of view - my small one. I'm ranting - to myself at least. No big deal.

d

Haley
01-18-2007, 12:07 AM
Very probably she doesn't even know about our disscussion :D
Yes Szczepan Janczuk i do know... :p

Hi everyone, and thank you for watching my video, I appreciate all the replies. And you gotta love all you who just want to quarrel with one another one who’s right and wrong, but I guess everyone’s different. Anyhow I hope you all enjoy watching, and understand that this video is not in anyway arrogant, but simply and Christmas gift to my grandmother that came from my heart, because next year you don’t know if everyone will still be there.
* Haley *

xuzen
01-18-2007, 03:12 AM
Very probably she doesn't even know about our disscussion :D
Yes Szczepan Janczuk i do know... :p

Hi everyone, and thank you for watching my video, I appreciate all the replies. And you gotta love all you who just want to quarrel with one another one who's right and wrong, but I guess everyone's different. Anyhow I hope you all enjoy watching, and understand that this video is not in anyway arrogant, but simply and Christmas gift to my grandmother that came from my heart, because next year you don't know if everyone will still be there.
* Haley *

Hello Haley,

Don't mind us, we are just bunch of internet warriors making full use of the internet. Still I would love to see you smash up your uke with some awesome yoko yaware (those sacrifice throws you were doing) ;)

Boon.

RoyK
01-18-2007, 03:40 AM
I've posted your video on a different form, Haley, and one judoka mentioned, after watching the video, that she thinks you've studied judo in the past, because you do allot of "Yoko Wakare". Is that something you study in your dojo?

MM
01-18-2007, 07:35 AM
Hello Haley,

I don't think any of us here took your video as arrogant. I hope your Grandmother liked your video. My family probably wouldn't understand any of what I'm doing in Aikido if I showed them a video. :)

It takes courage to put a video on the internet for all to see. Glad to see that you've survived that. :) Might be a good thing if we all put up a video to see how we're rated. LOL. Instead of ratemypic.com, we can have a ratemyaikidovideo.com.

Best of hard work and luck in your training,
Mark

MM
01-18-2007, 07:38 AM
Yes, this all makes sense, but should we expect anything else from a person that readily states or that it is stated about (that) they are of beginner rank and with few years (or less) of training? Additionally, really, how much real progress does one make from a few suggestions that some folks on an internet site made? I mean, I get where folks were coming from, but on the other hand, I'm curious of where there really is to go. This is without allowing for stylistic differences - which are really a huge factor when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong within a given set of training assumptions. Like is this bad posture and weak pins?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKT8sswEnKw

For me, saying, "good job, keeping going," is not a choice of a number of things that one can or should say here, it's the only thing. Why? Because I don't expect a beginner not to make the mistakes she was making, and I don't expect my comments to correct them. This is just another point of view - my small one. I'm ranting - to myself at least. No big deal.

d

Point duly noted, David. I have a better understanding of your post now. And it's something for me to think about ... thanks.

Mark

ian
01-18-2007, 10:51 AM
Well, really you've got to ignore the grade. OK, she is an amazing 5th kyu, but if she has that much potential, she deserves mistakes to be pointed out. Unfortunately, at my grade (1st Dan) I don't really feel I have the experience to do this for someone of her standard, especially considering she is not in my club ;)!

The only thing I would say, is that at time frame 01:04 the ikkyo was not cut down in the correct direction such that really it just took their arm down and didn't take their balance (may be the resulting irimi-nage was planned so full commitment to a proper ikkyo was not made). Also, she bent over slightly too much on occasion. On rare occasions (near the start) uke was pulled in slightly, and the extension was not what it could be. The ukes at the start were a bit 'leap-happy' to my taste, but otherwise this is gob-smackingly amazing. And as Dave had said, maybe its a bit of a pointless exercise asking us to assess this, when we're not in the club and their is a sensei on hand to do that for her in real (rather than virtual) life!

For those that haven't seen themselves on video - try it, you'll see odd things you'd never even dreamed that you did! What's more, believe it or not, you actually DO see a progression in your ability!

Thomas Campbell
01-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Haley, you rock.

And I hope your grandmother enjoys the video.

Ron Tisdale
01-18-2007, 03:42 PM
I can easily see myself recording my training for self correction, and to share with family.

Put myself on the net? eeeewwwww......nobody wants to see that!

Best,
Ron ;)

MM
01-18-2007, 04:31 PM
I can easily see myself recording my training for self correction, and to share with family.

Put myself on the net? eeeewwwww......nobody wants to see that!

Best,
Ron ;)

I dare you!

LOL

Being childish,
Mark

Coz:UK
01-18-2007, 04:34 PM
Instead of ratemypic.com, we can have a ratemyaikidovideo.com.

Well, the domains ratemyaikido.com and ratemyaikidovideo.com ARE available ;)

Haley
01-19-2007, 09:51 AM
My Sensei would like to express his sincere thanks to everyone for sharing their heart on my video.
He also stated that he tries to teach his students that before our 1 hour of training begins, to leave life’s impurities outside the Dojo and practice in a more pure form. Then we can teach ourselves to practice it on the other 23 hours of the day, and spread our knowledge of love into the universe. This is what he has learned from O’Sensei’s aikido.

(From: Brian Sensei 7:45 aikido class
International Budo Ryokukai)
I hope that all of you understand that Haley was sharing her heart with a special gift to her grandmother and she displayed aikido to accomplish that, and included all of you.

Ron Tisdale
01-19-2007, 10:04 AM
Thanks Haley! Best of luck in your training.

Ron

MM
01-19-2007, 10:32 AM
Haley,

If I have a vid on the net, I'll consider myself lucky to have half the composure that you've shown here. Thanks!

Mark

Gregy
01-22-2007, 02:29 PM
My Sensei would like to express his sincere thanks to everyone for sharing their heart on my video.
He also stated that he tries to teach his students that before our 1 hour of training begins, to leave life's impurities outside the Dojo and practice in a more pure form. Then we can teach ourselves to practice it on the other 23 hours of the day, and spread our knowledge of love into the universe. This is what he has learned from O'Sensei's aikido.

Haley -- Nice demonstration. Brian is a great teacher and has really done a great job of passing on his knowledge on to his students.

Haley -- You talk about spreading your knowledge of love into the universe and I like that.

Right now the Ryokukai Dojo is divided. I think you know what I am talking about. Brian created his own class at a different time in the dojo (7:45P.M.) so that he could teach Aikido the way he prefers. That is not a big deal, but it IS a big deal how people in the dojo have become alienated by this.

For example, a student in the dojo wanted to train in Brian's class at 7:45P.M.but also wanted to train in the 6:30P.M.class on other days. Brian gave him an ultimatum that he had to choose whether he was going to train with "them" or with "us". However, people from the 6:30P.M.class do not have an issue with any one of Brian's students attending their training.

Don't forget you are all under the same roof and you are all ranked by the same person i.e. Katsumi Niikura!! This has sadly divided the dojo that I once knew as ONE team. It looks to me like this situation has put Katsumi Niikura in an uncomfortable position. I am assuming he does not like the fact that his own dojo has been divided over nothing but ego. By the same token, Niikura Sensei does not want to hurt anyone's feelings so he simply remains silent, although I am sure his heart is broken.

I think it's time to sweep the past under the rug and unite everyone again. I urge you to "Reconcile your Differences." Is that not part of the essence of Aikido? This is going to be your biggest challenge yet. You profess "spreading love into the universe." It's time to make things right with the entire Ryokukai team and start spreading love to your own teammates as well, regardless of how they choose to practice their Aikido.

Ron Tisdale
01-22-2007, 02:34 PM
Wow...I can't imagine spreading the private business of a dojo I belong / belonged to on the internet. Hey, maybe I'm just backwards.

Best,
Ron :(

Gregy
01-22-2007, 02:35 PM
Stay out of it Ron. Thanks.

Ron Tisdale
01-22-2007, 02:38 PM
Hey, *you* posted it on a public forum. I'm in it only because I can read. If you don't want comments, don't post it publicly. Seems simple enough to me. Jun has provided a very nice PM function.

Best,
Ron :( :(

MM
01-22-2007, 03:18 PM
Yes, that post seemed to be best served as a PM rather than on a public forum. I'm like Ron, I certainly can't imagine myself doing that, but hey, it's the Internet. There's always more to the story than what you read.

Still, don't see any call to be curt to Ron. It is a public forum and anyone can post an opinion. Jun has overriding authority on what stays, however.

Now, can we get back to talking about the demonstration or has that thread died, too?

Mark

Mark Jakabcsin
01-22-2007, 03:44 PM
Not only airing the dirt publically but specifically addressing the comments to a 5th kyu instead of the people at the top. I am guessing that Katsumi Niikura's uncomfortable position just got more so.

Ugly.

MJ

Keith R Lee
01-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Stay out of it Ron. Thanks.

Don't post your dirty laundry here. Thanks.