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BDuncan
12-10-2006, 04:53 PM
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.

Cady Goldfield
12-10-2006, 05:38 PM
The one that gets its practioner killed! Oh, wait, do you mean dangerous to the OTHER guy? ;)

Sorry. :D

It makes no sense to compare arts, because their uses are designed for different situations and environments. Their effectiveness will also vary with practioners' individual temperaments and talents. Unschooled streetfighting and warrior clan koryu both can be "deadly," but how can you "rate" their deadliness against each other?

Would you ask what kind of gun kills better than another? Whether a Luger is deadlier than a Glock? Both fire bullets, and if you get hit with one in the right spot, you're dead. All makes of gun fire projectiles at a velocity that is lethal. Their individual details may include variations in repeat-action, laser aim, or other bells and whistles, and some kill "messier" while others kill "neat" because of the kinds of bullets they take, but essentially all guns are deadly. You as the individual just choose the one that best suits your needs and interests. If you want to kill a lot of people within split seconds of each other, then you choose an automatic repeating weapon. If you just need to kill one or a few people on any given occasion, then a .38 revolver is fine. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice. ;)

Deadliness aside, modern martial arts are exercises in theory, since we don't practice them to kill people (at least, I hope not). Ostesibly, we can use them to defend ourselves against attacks. But don't mistake the stuff folks do in the dojo with straight killing methods used strictly for dispatching -- for mercenary, espionage, or other professional reasons -- human beings to expedite a political or business objective. That's where the "deadly" resides. Even so, physical skills are rarely used for that line of work. Radioactive polonium slipped into a drink at a hotel bar was a much more intriguing killing method to remove an unwanted Russian spy (allegedly at the behest of Vladimir Putin) than would have been snapping his spine. ;)

My $.02 anyway.

SeiserL
12-10-2006, 06:17 PM
IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.

Roman Kremianski
12-10-2006, 06:33 PM
I'd take a wild guess and say these things are the most dangerous fighting style:

http://www.truthnet.org/daniel70weeks/nuclear-bomb-ch.jpg

The US happens to be 8th dan in this particular art! :freaky:
Don't mess!

sullivanw
12-10-2006, 08:21 PM
Aha! The formless form! The style that is not a style! :D

This thread reminds me of something I read some time ago. It was to the effect of the most dangerous swordsman to face, aside from a master, was one who had never held a sword before. The rank novice could be incredibly reckless and unpredictable, and while being very dangerous to themselves, could also be a hazard to a trained swordsman.

As far as actual styles go I'm not sure that there is a most dangerous one. Really it is the individual, their level of and commitment to training, innate factors, and their level of disregard for their opponent.

-Will

Ketsan
12-10-2006, 08:28 PM
IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.


IMO a style is basically someones knowlege (tactics, strategy, body mechanics etc) whether learned by fighting or passed on through teaching. For example Aikido is basically everything O-Sensei found useful from his own experience, so when you learn Aikido you're basically taking O-Sensei's and our instructors (and their instructors and so on) knowlege, experience and ways of thinking and then incorporating them into yourself. You can often watch someone on a grading and tell who their instructor is for instance.

So in a way the style and the person are one and the same, although of course we're not O-Sensei or our instructors and so there are individual variations. In that case the style you learn (whether learned in the dojo, from practical experience or both) influences the person you are and thus how dangerous you are.

Haole
12-10-2006, 08:47 PM
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.

What's the saying? There are no stupid questions? Well, this one is close.

Cady Goldfield
12-10-2006, 09:18 PM
Will, for some odd reason, the classic "dingy ride to Han's Island" scene from Enter the Dragon flashed through my mind yesterday while I was working on other stuff. Thanks for providing the re-run today... "Wot's YER style?!" "The style of no-style." Heh. One of my favorite lines in the movie. :)

Kevin Wilbanks
12-10-2006, 10:16 PM
. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice. ;)

I'm getting the idea that dating is a good deal more interesting in Uzbekistan than it is here. I would like to hear some stories.

As far as the deadliest art goes, I'm going to go with guile.

Aristeia
12-10-2006, 10:44 PM
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.Grenoch. No question.

hapkidoike
12-10-2006, 10:44 PM
Would you ask what kind of gun kills better than another? Whether a Luger is deadlier than a Glock? Both fire bullets, and if you get hit with one in the right spot, you're dead. All makes of gun fire projectiles at a velocity that is lethal. Their individual details may include variations in repeat-action, laser aim, or other bells and whistles, and some kill "messier" while others kill "neat" because of the kinds of bullets they take, but essentially all guns are deadly. You as the individual just choose the one that best suits your needs and interests. If you want to kill a lot of people within split seconds of each other, then you choose an automatic repeating weapon. If you just need to kill one or a few people on any given occasion, then a .38 revolver is fine. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice. ;)



Maybe, but ammunition does have different characteristics right? That is to say that a .357 is more "effective" (maybe I am defining effectiveness incorrectly but give me a break) because that specific round usually (and I cannot produce the evidence, I learned this while taking a conceal/carry class) only requieres one round to stop a human body. I think that it was somehere around the 92% of all incidents involving a .357 were "one shot stops". If one is willing to grant my definition of "effective" then there will be little argument what weapon is superior when we ask, should I carry a .22 or a .357 mag? But if you do not grant my definition of "effective" we will run into problems.

This question aobut what art is the "dangerous" has the same pitfall. First who gets to define deadly? Who is our 'authority'/where is our evidence? And, how can we possibly test what we decide on? If you really want to engage this then sort out what it is you are really trying to ask.

Kevin Wilbanks
12-10-2006, 11:21 PM
If one is willing to grant my definition of "effective" then there will be little argument what weapon is superior when we ask, should I carry a .22 or a .357 mag? But if you do not grant my definition of "effective" we will run into problems.

Actually, my understanding is that for point blank range asassination, smaller calibers, including .22 cal pistols designed for target shooting, are considered the most effective by today's discriminating assassin. Less noise. Less mess.

For sheer killing power in a weapon, I say you can't beat the infected blanket. It probably wiped out the majority of the approximately 100 million people who used to live on the continent where I live now before my ancestors arrived. Trading diseased products probably killed 10 to 20 times as many people as the Nazis, maybe twice as many the black plague, with it's previous deadly weapon champ: the flea. So my list of most dangerous fighting weapons: 1) the blanket, 2) the flea, 3)the Nazi.

RampantWolf
12-11-2006, 01:36 AM
What's the saying? There are no stupid questions? Well, this one is close.
I think the one you are looking for is "There are no stupid questions... but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." :D

Not pointing fingers, just tossing off a one-liner.

Mark Freeman
12-11-2006, 05:19 AM
So my list of most dangerous fighting weapons: 1) the blanket, 2) the flea, 3)the Nazi.

add to that the mosquito, and you have a formidable arsenal :uch:

Jory Boling
12-11-2006, 05:40 AM
Will, for some odd reason, the classic "dingy ride to Han's Island" scene from Enter the Dragon flashed through my mind yesterday while I was working on other stuff. Thanks for providing the re-run today... "Wot's YER style?!" "The style of no-style." Heh. One of my favorite lines in the movie. :)

Is that the same movie as "Who's the Master!?" "Sho Nuff!" ?
Sifu Sho Nuff had some deadly body skills.

John Matsushima
12-11-2006, 06:21 AM
Johnny Yu: Remember how you're always telling us to master "the art of fighting without fighting"?
Leroy Green: Yeah.
Johnny Yu: Well I did you one better. I mastered "the art of fighting... without knowing how to fight".

Now, when I say, "Who's da mastah?" you say, "Sho'nuff!"

Erick Mead
12-11-2006, 06:57 AM
I'd take a wild guess and say these things are the most dangerous fighting style:

http://www.truthnet.org/daniel70weeks/nuclear-bomb-ch.jpg

The US happens to be 8th dan in this particular art! :freaky:
Don't mess! But No! Your kung-fu is not strong!

On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics. There have been but few masters of this art. Bouts occur only every 100 million years or so, and, well, let's just say -- tickets are hard to come by.

A match routinely results in the near-sterilization of the planet, --- and so one has ever been able to report the winner. The identity of the current master therefore remains perpetually hidden.

Mark Freeman
12-11-2006, 07:04 AM
But No! Your kung-fu is not strong!

On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics. There have been but few masters of this art. Bouts occur only every 100 million years or so, and, well, let's just say -- tickets are hard to come by.

A match routinely results in the near-sterilization of the planet, --- and so one has ever been able to report the winner. The identity of the current master therefore remains perpetually hidden.

If you could locate a dinosaur, you could ask one of them, they saw this particular 'artist' but only briefly ;)

Jorge Garcia
12-11-2006, 07:09 AM
On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics.

If we're going that route, we shouldn't forget Grand Celestial Do!

http://cosmicfighting.atspace.com/origins.html

Erick Mead
12-11-2006, 07:42 AM
If we're going that route, we shouldn't forget Grand Celestial Do!
http://cosmicfighting.atspace.com/origins.html NO, no, no,.... You want the comprehensive manual if you want to fight in THAT weight class:

"Top Ten Ways to Destroy Earth"

http://www.livescience.com/technology/10ways_destroyearth.html

Cady Goldfield
12-11-2006, 08:19 AM
Maybe, but ammunition does have different characteristics right? That is to say that a .357 is more "effective" (maybe I am defining effectiveness incorrectly but give me a break) because that specific round usually (and I cannot produce the evidence, I learned this while taking a conceal/carry class) only requieres one round to stop a human body. I think that it was somehere around the 92% of all incidents involving a .357 were "one shot stops".

Isaac, you're splitting hairs. ;) All guns are capable of delivering a lethal payload into a human being. That's the point. (Or hollow point...).

But remember, "guns don't kill people..." Like Lynn Seiser said, it's the person, not the vehicle he uses, whether gun or empty hand.

Cady Goldfield
12-11-2006, 08:20 AM
I'm getting the idea that dating is a good deal more interesting in Uzbekistan than it is here. I would like to hear some stories.

As far as the deadliest art goes, I'm going to go with guile.

It's even more interesting here in Massachusetts (I like the colors of the Uzbekistani flag better than our primary red/white/blue...) :D

Jory,
You're thinking of "The Last Dragon" (which featured one of my favorite character actors, Julius Cary III), a cute send-up of Bruce Lee's "Enter the Dragon."

Sho' nuff!

Luc X Saroufim
12-11-2006, 09:01 AM
IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.

+1

Any art can be the "art of peace" if practiced within that realm, and the polar opposite is true.

statisticool
12-11-2006, 09:13 AM
gun fu

James Davis
12-11-2006, 03:23 PM
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.
Thermonuclear warfare.

hapkidoike
12-11-2006, 05:36 PM
Actually, my understanding is that for point blank range asassination, smaller calibers, including .22 cal pistols designed for target shooting, are considered the most effective by today's discriminating assassin. Less noise. Less mess.



Ok, I should have been more clear. I mean to judge "effectiveness" speciffically within the context of people using a weapon (specifically a sidearm) in a self defense situation. Given that most gunfights happen at about 7 feet, the effeciveness of a weapon a "point blank" range is not so relevant.

And Goldfield, about me splitting hairs. I would argue that I am making distinctions about differences in degree (as opposed to differences in kind), but you would probably just accuse me of splitting hairs again. :D Just busting your chops.

Kevin Wilbanks
12-11-2006, 06:54 PM
It's even more interesting here in Massachusetts (I like the colors of the Uzbekistani flag better than our primary red/white/blue...) :D


That's too bad. I've been to Massachusetts, so I'm not buying it. All my cinematic visions of some kind of swarthy, treachery-filled middle eastern dating scenario down the drain...

Cady Goldfield
12-11-2006, 08:32 PM
You're thinking of Khazakstan... ;)

michael_rath
12-16-2006, 07:46 PM
All guns aside (please :) ). I have to agree with the Lynn Seiser. It all comes down to the human imagination. How else do you think these fighting forms came around? Some one came up with the to fight back against people attacking them. Wow! What a concept! Isn't that why most people join in the martial arts (or own a fire arm)? They want to be able to fight back. The human imagination made up swords and how to use them, firearms, and even the nuclear war head. Its sounds like the person is only as limited as his mind gives him.

For some that is rather limited :p .

Let's face it there are a lot of serial killers I consider very dangerous and deadly, not because they have the greatest martial art, but because they have very psychotic and vivid imaginations and are not afraid to use any violent mean to utilize his little imagination. :uch:

Michael

roninroshi
12-16-2006, 07:49 PM
The one you don't see coming in a moment of mindlessness...

Kevin Leavitt
12-17-2006, 07:49 AM
The most dangerous fighting style I can think of is a domestic argument. One where two people are deeply emotionally involved and passionate about their anger and resolving it. It can go many different ways, and end in an unfortunate tragedy.

It can also hurt, injure, kill the person/people trying to intervene with minimal force to end the situation.

clockworkmechanicalman
12-24-2006, 02:33 PM
I'd take a wild guess and say these things are the most dangerous fighting style:

http://www.truthnet.org/daniel70weeks/nuclear-bomb-ch.jpg

The US happens to be 8th dan in this particular art! :freaky:
Don't mess!

:( sad but true.

statisticool
12-24-2006, 03:04 PM
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.

I'll give my serious answer. :) My not serious answer was 'gun fu'.

There are several possible ways to answer:

1) MA determined by wins in full contact/resistant matches

2) MA that uses the largest muscle groups of the body most effectively

3) MA that uses weapons

4) MA that the most people practice

5) MA that teaches strikes and techniques that other MAs prohibit practicing

I think the MA that satisfies 2) fits the definition of 'most dangerous' the most becasue it would train people to have the most force in a consistent reliable manner.