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GnosticWarrior
11-18-2006, 04:06 AM
Hi everyone out there!

I don't practice Aikido in a dojo any more. However, I do believe Aikido is a very great thing that was set in motion by O-Sensei and his dedicated followers who are continuing his efforts to create a better world society by creating better individuals. Practicing Aikido enhances life. "The Art of Peace is the religion that is not a religion; it perfects and completes all religions."

Like most organized religions, most Aikido dojos are setup as a non-profit organization. What did turn me off about the Aikido dojo that I used to attend was the fund raising activities. I thought that it distracted from the regular training. Plus the companies who provided the chicken, kalua pig, or candies we sold made most of the money. We also charged a donation for guests to attend kiatsu workshops. To me those workshops should have been for free, to help showcase the benefits of joining and practicing.

I understand that funds are needed to run the dojo. Rent or leases need to be paid, equipment costs, administration expenses, and etc. I also see nothing wrong with the chief instructor and assistant instructors getting paid but they all volunteered their time. That's very generous of them. But maybe it would be beneficial to the students to have instructors who are focused on developing their own skills and helping their students full time versus having to work a job full time to earn a living and yet try to squeeze Aikido in with it.

So I just was wondering if there was any other people out there who are into investing in stocks? Anyone read up on Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger? Subscribe to Outstanding Investor Digest or Value Investing Insight? Instead of fund raising, if all students as individuals understand that they all need to help share the cost of running the dojo, and if a member donates $250 or more it can be claimed as a tax deduction on their tax return.

Would it be reasonable to assume that a person who practices Aikido would be a better employee than a nonpracticioner? If so than that person would be more valuable to an employer? Maybe earn more pay? Have more money left over to invest after monthly living expenses are deducted? Earns a decent investment return on their investments in stocks? Feels grateful for the financial prosperity that Aikido helped them achieve, and therefore willing to donate 10% of their gross capital gains from their stock investments. And also get a tax deduction on that donation too.

Just wanted to shoot this idea around. Thanks for reading. :)

Maybe the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation would recognize how beneficial Aikido is in making this world better and decide to put some resources in this direction?

Marcus

deepsoup
11-18-2006, 08:32 AM
Would it be reasonable to assume that a person who practices Aikido would be a better employee than a nonpracticioner?
Nope.
At least, no more so than one who plays squash, dances the tango or sings in a choir.

Guilty Spark
11-18-2006, 08:53 AM
I disagree Sean but it's a tricky topic no doubt.

To me, someone in Aikido would (likely) have decent respect for their peers, would be responsible and punctual. Active (vice being a slug who stays athome all day).

It's a sticky slope suggesting an aikido practicioner would be "better" than someone who doesn't pratice however I think that knowing someone DOES aikido would mean you can make some safe guesses about them compared to someone you don't know a single thing about.

Someone who plays squash would be active, someone who dances wouldn't be clumsy, someone who sings in a choir would be outgoing.

Qatana
11-18-2006, 08:55 AM
Really! I do aikido AND dance tango and I'm a Lousy employee! Something about taking ownership of my work even though I don't own the business....bosses just don't like that! Course, I haven't had a Real Job since I started training, but I know it hasn't made me a better boss, either.

markwalsh
11-18-2006, 10:38 AM
The purpose of Budo is to develop the person hence buDO -as envisaged by Ueshiba, Kano and even founders of "hard" styles such as Yoshinkan. Agree with Grant that this doesn't necessarily happen - depends on your focus - but am firmly and passionately convinced after extensive personal and academic research that some positive change is likely to occur - if only as a result of health increasing (if is getting too esoteric) and also is more likely in aikido than in competitive sports such as squash for a number of reasons I explore in several other "off-mat" Aiki Web threads.

Am of the belief that viewing aikido as just aerobic exercise, or the same as playing table tennis, is a tragic waste and am very sad when I hear this view expressed.

Thanks for all contributions,
Mark

Marcus - Private mail on way

markwalsh
11-18-2006, 10:45 AM
Does it make you a better employee - agree with Grants point that it might well, also would suggest that aikido develops the person and this is actually highly dangerous to the way many employers ask their staff to act and think min the modern world. Viva the revolution :-)

Jo - I think you're lovely, even if bosses don't appreciate you - you Californian rebel Godess :-)

GnosticWarrior
11-18-2006, 01:04 PM
Sorry if my thread is written in a self centered, U.S. based manner. It's great to be able to exchange ideas with other people from around the world!

I myself am not a good employee. I don't follow orders well. It's hard if your trying to follow Aikido principles in your daily life and it does not mesh well with your employment. I wish I could find a boss like my former Sensei. Unfortunately, of all the bosses that I have come across in the work field, none were even close in being a person of character and integrity as my Sensei. Although maybe its because I mostly have been a government employee.

That is why I want to try find a way to develop Aikido principles based businesses. A company brings a collective group of people together and pools resources to accomplish an objective. We might be able to simplify that the overall objective is profits, but indirectly to provide goods and services that society needs and/or desires. I think is possible for a business to practice Aikido principles, and yet be competitive enough to be able to provide a decent living for its employees. Do you think there is a way for Aikidokas to organize themselves to do this?

Mark Freeman
11-18-2006, 06:22 PM
.

That is why I want to try find a way to develop Aikido principles based businesses. A company brings a collective group of people together and pools resources to accomplish an objective. We might be able to simplify that the overall objective is profits, but indirectly to provide goods and services that society needs and/or desires. I think is possible for a business to practice Aikido principles, and yet be competitive enough to be able to provide a decent living for its employees.

Aikido can be a great metaphor for how to run a business.

If we agree that aikido is the co-ordinated movement of mind, body and spirit of a human being, and use this model to apply to the 'corporate' world. Then if we see the 'spirit' as the corporate 'mission', 'mind' as the 'strategy' used to achieve the mission, and 'body' being the corporate 'resources' i.e.. the people and the capital assets. Then if this corporate company functions or strives to function at all times with co-ordination and awareness, as we do in aikido practice, then it will be more effective with less effort.

As long as the people in the organisation buy into the mission itself and feel committed to the strategy that the company is using to get there, then they are in a stronger position to deal with the rough and tumble of the market place, than the opponent who is not so well equipped.

This whole area is a deep vein to be mined. Anyone interested in this field might like to search out a the book "An Unused Intelligence" by Andy Bryner & Dawna Markova. It may fall short on the 'hard' side of business i.e. $$ profit, but it is an excellent guide to how aikido principles can be used to enhance the learning of the people in large organisations.

kind regards

Mark

Mark Freeman
11-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Do you think there is a way for Aikidokas to organize themselves to do this?

They would at first glance be the ideal candidates wouln't they? but I'm not so sure ;)

cheers

Mark

markwalsh
11-18-2006, 08:00 PM
Many Aiki Extensions members work closely with corporations. I have experienced this work in UK, USA and Brazil with some very high level executives, and seen good results.

I used to view corporations as the enemy of health, happiness and justice - now I see them as human being organized around principles that can be sick or healthy.

One of friends in AE is a millionaire company CEO, with many employees and healthy bank balance - so this isn't just theory and can be VERY useful.

Mark

Jun - should this thread be in the general or off-mat forum - seems like we're talking about aikido of a kind, and would like wider audience as close to my heart.

deepsoup
11-19-2006, 06:05 PM
Someone who plays squash would be active, someone who dances wouldn't be clumsy, someone who sings in a choir would be outgoing.
And someone who relies on such oversimplified generalisations to recruit their staff wouldn't be in business for very long...

Guilty Spark
11-19-2006, 06:39 PM
Relies on, I agree. Bad stuff.
They are good indicators though don't you think?

markwalsh
11-19-2006, 06:41 PM
Chill Sean - why attack someone who is making a valid point in a polite way? You don't have to agree with the opinions of our Canadian friend, but the first rule of AikiWeb Club is that you do have to treat others with respect here. Maybe I've misinterpreted your post, but I didn't sense any respect in it.

In response to yours I also think it's also a goods point - oversimplifications that "aikido makes you better" are dangerous. Also think that Grant was just picking a few random examples to show a point and doesn't see himself as a HR consultant.

This isn't a competition and there are no prizes for being right.

Mark

Grant - hope you don't mind me jumping in here - do not wish this thread to degrade into another unharmonious war so wanted to nip in bud for sake of all.

GnosticWarrior
11-19-2006, 10:47 PM
Many Aiki Extensions members work closely with corporations. I have experienced this work in UK, USA and Brazil with some very high level executives, and seen good results.

I used to view corporations as the enemy of health, happiness and justice - now I see them as human being organized around principles that can be sick or healthy.

Hey Mark, thanks for the reference to AE. Checked out their website and so far I liked enough of what I saw to become a member. I think applying Aikido principles off the mat into regular society is the ultimate goal that O-Sensei himself would have liked to see. :)

deepsoup
11-20-2006, 04:36 AM
They are good indicators though don't you think?
I'm not so sure. I think its a bad idea to deal with people on any basis other than as individuals. Generalisation generally makes me a bit uneasy... :)

Chill Sean
Has anyone ever in the history of debate, discussion or whatever chilled out as a result of a third party stepping out of the shadows and telling them "chill"? I doubt it. The sanctimony of your post could almost be calculated to annoy me, your post is as counterproductive as it is irrelevant to this thread.
(Unless you're trolling, in which case I congratulate you on your wonderful subtlety.)


This isn't a competition and there are no prizes for being right.
No, its forum for discussion and debate. Nor are there any prizes for walking on eggshells trying not to disagree with each other too vigorously (presumably on the grounds that it would be somehow not be "aiki" to do so).

...do not wish this thread to degrade into another unharmonious war so wanted to nip in bud for sake of all.
As opposed to a harmonious war? I prefer my buds unnipped, thankyou very much. In future, you'd do better to 'intervene' in this way by private message or email. I'll ignore you, but at least it won't clutter up the thread with digressions like this.

markwalsh
11-20-2006, 06:49 AM
Hi Sean,

You sound furious.

Have read my post and does seem a little like my head was up ass, though was made from genuine need to respect Grant, who because of some other threads I'm quite fond of.

Not my place to intervene yes, or also to command anyone to "chill" - good learning here thanks - was request to breath and consider, not demand. Not interested with agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, bu in debate as you say. I think how we communicate here is very relevant to aikido - please forgive if you off consider off-topic.

Take care,
Mark

deepsoup
11-20-2006, 09:54 AM
You sound furious.
A common problem with internet forums, I suppose. I was mildly irritated at worst. (And mild irritation is pretty much my default condition at this time of year, so that hardly counts at all!)
Maybe I should use more smileys.

please forgive if you off consider off-topic
Doesn't worry me. If everyone else will forgive the both of us for the digression, I think its time for me to relurk. :)