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mrfeldmeyer
11-13-2006, 12:06 PM
I currently practice in the Jiyushinkai system which is very rooted in Tomiki Aikido with our kata. I am trying to find a good way to talk with Aikikai, Yoshinkan, etc... about our techniques and understand the language difference between the two. As our system goes here are the 17 kata

Atemi Waza -
1. Shomen Ate
2. Aigamae Ate
3. Gyakugamae Ate
4. Gedan Ate
5. Ushiro Ate

Hiji Waza -
6. Oshi Taoshi
7. Ude Gaeshi
8. Hiki Taoshi
9. Ude Hineri
10. Waki Gatame

Tekubi Waza -
11. Kote Hineri
12. Kote Gaeshi
13. Tenkai Kote Hineri
14. Shihonage (Tenkai Kote Gaeshi)

Uki Waza -
15. Mae Otoshi
16. Sumi Otoshi
17. Hiki Otoshi

I have checked the aikiwiki for similar techniques throughout the different systems, and the chart seems to have quite a few of them translated. I am curious though if the few that don't translate throughout the systems, such as Aikikai Yonkyo & Gokyo, have similar technique in Tomiki Aikido. If anyone has a fairly well list of translated waza, I would appreciate it if they would share it. Thanks.

Yann Golanski
11-14-2006, 03:05 AM
I currently practice in the Jiyushinkai system which is very rooted in Tomiki Aikido with our kata. I am trying to find a good way to talk with Aikikai, Yoshinkan, etc... about our techniques and understand the language difference between the two. As our system goes here are the 17 kata


Get Shishida-shihan and Nariyama-shihan book on Shodokan Aikido. It's all there.

Atemi Waza -
1. Shomen Ate -- tenshi nage, sometimes.
2. Aigamae Ate -- irimi nage, sometimes tenshinage.
3. Gyakugamae Ate -- kyoko ho.
4. Gedan Ate -- koshinage.
5. Ushiro Ate -- no idea.

Hiji Waza -
6. Oshi Taoshi -- ikkyo
7. Ude Gaeshi -- not sure but I think it's the same.
8. Hiki Taoshi -- not sure but I think it's the same.
9. Ude Hineri -- kaiten nage.
10. Waki Gatame -- same

Tekubi Waza -
11. Kote Hineri -- nikyo
12. Kote Gaeshi -- same
13. Tenkai Kote Hineri -- sankyo
14. Shihonage (Tenkai Kote Gaeshi) -- shihonage.

Uki Waza -
15. Mae Otoshi -- same
16. Sumi Otoshi -- same
17. Hiki Otoshi -- same.


I am curious though if the few that don't translate throughout the systems, such as Aikikai Yonkyo & Gokyo, have similar technique in Tomiki Aikido. If anyone has a fairly well list of translated waza, I would appreciate it if they would share it. Thanks.

In Shodokan, yonkyo is done in 2nd kyu kneeling. Gokyo is done in the second dan part of the goshin no kata. So far, I have not seen *any aikido* technique not taught in any of the styles I have seen and trained in.

What some folks mean as kata is a set response against a set attack. What we Shodokan folks call a kata is a technique (say, ikkyo or oshi taoshi) with many different applications. technically, we should call them waza not kata but I maybe wrong as my Japanese is rather poor.

Dirk Hanss
11-14-2006, 07:59 AM
I'ld just refer to http://www.aikiweb.com/wiki/reference . If you know more, you may extend the reference table.

All the best


Dirk

PeterR
11-14-2006, 07:28 PM
Hi Yann;

I think in Shodokan parlance waza is technique while kata refers to a technique done in a certain way against a defined attack.

So the Junanahon is a kata but so are all 17 of its components. However, shomen-ate by itself for example is a waza. I think the confusion arises since, again with shomen-ate, there are a number of official variations (kata) to different attacks. Circles beyond circles. Of course when you pull off a drop dead gorgeous shomen-ate in randori no one says "damm that was a beautiful kata"

Yann Golanski
11-15-2006, 02:58 AM
Of course when you pull off a drop dead gorgeous shomen-ate in randori no one says "damm that was a beautiful kata"

In my experience, there's a chorus of "Woohoos!!!", a lot of similing faces and uke being so annoyed that (s)he got done by the first waza (s)he learnt!