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Mike Hamer
09-25-2006, 11:07 PM
The other day, while I was reading "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" It started talking about developing an instinctive response. It made me remember awhile back my mom brought up something about some "Instinctive response training" right here in Alma where I live. I just sort of ignored it at the time, (hadnt started aikido yet). One time I walked past the building and some guys were throwing objects at eachother close range, and deflecting them. I walked pass them and said "What is this some kind of ninja shit?" they replied "Well, it's not shit, I can tell you that" That was about 5 months ago. Anyhoo, reading that bit about an instinctive response in the Dynamic Sphere got me interested in checking it out. Today was my first class. It's a million times more than I ever thought it was. At the begining of class we started with something quite familliar, forward, side, and backward rolls. But the rest of the class was completly different. I kind of think of it as the yin and yang of my martial training. In aikido, I will learn the principles of blending and understaing the energy invloved with an attack.While in IRT (which is based off of many forms of ancient martial arts, striking, grappeling, sword fighting etc) I will learn more about the specific forms of attacking and fighting.

IRT was just founded in 1994 so it really is something new. Ive only been to one class, so I dont want to missrepresent it in anyway. So check it out for yourself

http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com/


P.S look at the training curriculum!

Mike Hamer
09-25-2006, 11:27 PM
Sorry if his is in the wrong forum, move it if you want.

Mike Hamer
09-26-2006, 06:04 PM
hello?

dps
09-26-2006, 07:19 PM
Training your body and mind to respond instinctively in a different way than you already know is what training in Aikido or any other martial art is.

Bronson
09-27-2006, 12:40 AM
Throwing Objects + Chainsaw = totally sweet!!

Bronson

DonMagee
09-27-2006, 06:06 AM
IRT™ at its very essence is the study of martial Science.

IRT ™ is a system that teaches martial science. Martial science includes the entire group of martial techniques designed for self defense.


That is my biggest pet peeve ever in the martial arts. I hate the whole 'martial science' thing. What is the science? Are they doing controled tests on which movements generate force? Are they publishing papers to science journals? Are they perhaps testing techniques to see if they really do kill people? (maybe by testing the damage caused on a cadaver?)

To top it off all of these 'science' people teach things like (and I quote)

SPIRITUAL
1. Moral Conduct
2. Meditation
3. Ritualization
4. Personal Power Growth
5. Warrior Fasting
6. Psychic Energy Training
7. Instinctual Training

Where is the science in that? Science refers to either: the scientific method – a process for evaluating empirical knowledge; or the organized body of knowledge gained by this process. I can tell you that at no point did they gain Psychic energy training though the scientific method.

On to the school. It looks like a normal Ninjutsu school to me. Of course there is some things I find humorous in their training (like boat training). But it is not my place to judge what to spend one's time learning to fight with. (Although in this cause I'm assuming they mean evasion not fighting. I'm not sure anyone can teach me how to run people over any better then I can right now.) I'm sure they are just as quality a school as any Ninjutsu school you might fine.

However, there is one thing that concerns me. It could be nothing and probably is nothing. But if I was a prospective student at this school I would want to clarify this. The main instructor listed is Brian R. VanCise. He lists his experiance in many martial arts, amoung those is 10+ years experience in Brazilian Jiujitsu. He lists no rank held in BJJ, but directly underneth it under other arts trained he lists Gracie Jiujitsu. This is like saying you trained in judo club number one, and judo club number two. I would think that anyone who spent 10 years seriously studing a martial art would know that about the art and just put Graice Jiujitsu or BJJ but not both. I train in a carlson gracie school, and Carlson called his art 'Carlson Gracie Jiujitsu', but he's not going to tell you it's not the same as BJJ, it's just marketing. To me this raises a red flag that he might be overmarketing himself to appear to have more training then he has, seriously believes graice jiujitsu and bjj are two different things, or may not of been a serious student in BJJ (In which case 10 years exp is misleading, but not dishonest). He posts no rank in his BJJ, yet he posts his TKD and Ninja black belts. I would expect anyone who seriously trained in bjj for 10 years to at least have achieve a purple belt, and anyone who trained for 10 years with a purple belt would know to be VERY proud of that belt and post it as a readly as one would post your black belts. However to his credit, he does post a link to a creditable bjj club where I assume he acheived his bjj training. So I have a feeling his training is legit, but my question would be to ask about rank, and consitancy of training. I trained in TKD as a child. If I was to go take a TKD class tomarrow, it would be misrepresenting myself to say I've trained in TKD for 20 years.

I tell you this not because I want to put down your training or your new school. I want to encourage you to ask questions, think about your training, and hopefully learn something new. You might find out that it is just marketing, or you might find out he is a very good competitor with a good rank in bjj. In either case this could give you insight into your teachers training and what you can reasonably expect him to teach you. This goes the same for all the other arts he listed. I just used bjj as an example because bjj is fairly young and bjj rank is still legit (there are not many 10th degree bjj guys with 2-3 years training like other arts today) so I push to keep it legit. I am not calling your teacher a liar or calling bullshido or anything. I am simply stating that a claim of 10 years bjj training is something I would want to get more info about if I was to train at his school.

Other then that, have fun!

Mike Hamer
09-27-2006, 10:45 PM
Thanks for all the insight Don, im pretty sure this guys legit.

He plans on bringing Taijitsu (ancient martial art with ties to ninja ryu ha's and samurai ryu ha's) into Alma! Alma is the little boring town I live in......Something like this would be the best thing thats ever happened to this town in my opinion.

Wow, today towards the end of class he threw me a helmet. Inside the helmet were knee, shin, elbow, and hand pads. I put them on. He throws me some padded weapon simmilar to darth mauls.....Next thing I know im sparring.......good stuff. though, aaaaahhhhhhhh I can still feel my ears ringing.....hahaha not really. Seriously though, I cant get enough of this stuff. Only complaint I have is that this is two days a week and I only have aikido once a week......I guess I just want to even it out more or something like that. No matter how many times I read about staying focused and calm in a live attack situation, I'll never be able to until im in them. We (or atleast I) dont do this in aikido at all yet. I really do plan on using IRT to fuel my aikido training, and vice versa.....man, im just rambling now..... :rolleyes:

grondahl
09-28-2006, 05:29 AM
The instructor in question in an active member on www.budoseek.net/vbulletin

Ask him there..

DonMagee
09-28-2006, 07:36 AM
Thanks for all the insight Don, im pretty sure this guys legit.

He plans on bringing Taijitsu (ancient martial art with ties to ninja ryu ha's and samurai ryu ha's) into Alma! Alma is the little boring town I live in......Something like this would be the best thing thats ever happened to this town in my opinion.

Wow, today towards the end of class he threw me a helmet. Inside the helmet were knee, shin, elbow, and hand pads. I put them on. He throws me some padded weapon simmilar to darth mauls.....Next thing I know im sparring.......good stuff. though, aaaaahhhhhhhh I can still feel my ears ringing.....hahaha not really. Seriously though, I cant get enough of this stuff. Only complaint I have is that this is two days a week and I only have aikido once a week......I guess I just want to even it out more or something like that. No matter how many times I read about staying focused and calm in a live attack situation, I'll never be able to until im in them. We (or atleast I) dont do this in aikido at all yet. I really do plan on using IRT to fuel my aikido training, and vice versa.....man, im just rambling now..... :rolleyes:

Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm glad you found a place that lets you play like that. I've always wanted to do some kendo or other kind of weapons sparing. I just wanted to say that in no way was I calling the guy a fraud. I was just trying to use him as an example of what to look for when checking out a teacher and what kinds of questions to ask.

Mike Hamer
09-28-2006, 12:27 PM
Thanks again, and yea, it is alot of fun! ;)

Mike Hamer
08-15-2012, 03:48 AM
Well after 6 years of training in IRT, I must say.....very legit ;)

genin
08-15-2012, 06:33 AM
Hehe, this is right up my alley. It's basically a mixture of my favorite combat systems, ninjitsu and krav maga, which is why he can't label it as either and instead calls it IRT. Though I was disappointed that shuriken where not listed under his ballistics training, but that's admittidly a specialized form of weaponry. The chainsaw and boat training makes me want to facepalm a little bit, but I'm sure theres at least a modicum of relevance in knowing how to use such things to your advantage.

I got some email a while ago about a water combat training seminar in california or some such, which kind of gets back to the idea of "boat training". But I couldn't help but wonder if there is any practicality in training to fight in water. I mean, if someone accosts me in water, my ONLY priority is TO GET OUT OF THE WATER! But who knows, maybe I'll be at the beach one day swimming, and some maniac with a chainsaw will try to kill me while I'm doing the breast stroke. Then the last thought going through my mind will be "If only I'd taken that IRT course!"

mathewjgano
08-15-2012, 09:51 AM
Well after 6 years of training in IRT, I must say.....very legit ;)

Very cool! Glad to see you're still at it 6 years later! Would you be willing to describe more about the progression of your training over these past 6 years?

Mike Hamer
08-22-2012, 01:59 AM
Very cool! Glad to see you're still at it 6 years later! Would you be willing to describe more about the progression of your training over these past 6 years?

Id say that in the last 6 years IRT has turned me into a well rounded martial artist. When I first started training in IRT I had already been training in aikido for almost a year, so needless to say it felt very awkward at first learning techniques of destruction rather than harmony. I was so used to just blending with attacks rather than actually being the attacker, learning the movement and footwork associated with that was difficult at first. Learning to strike efficiently was the first thing I really learned. With empty hand strikes, kicks, stick work, blades, and various other types of weapons. Alot of this training was based on Filipino stick and dagger arts, Muay Thai, kickboxing, budo taijutsu, and boxing. When it came to more defensive and reactionary techniques such as basic grab escapes, throws, wrist locks, disarms, and getting off line of an attack, I felt alot more at home due to the Aikido training I had at the time, so I enjoyed that aspect a little more and had an easier time learning it. Grappling was a whole other world in itself, that I am very much in love with and have been since I started training in it. I found that my aikido training really helped me out here. Having already practiced how to stay calm and centered, I found my progress in this area to be fun and somewhat simple (simple, not easy!) Years went by and I was ready for my first test. This included demonstration of various things ranging from basic self defense, striking empty handed and with weapons, grappling (submissions and transitions), free form movement, padded sparring with empty hands and with sticks, submission grappling, breaking, and oral/written exams. At this point I felt pretty well rounded as a martial artist, visiting different schools/dojos and feeling at home wherever I went. What I learned in IRT made it very easy to walk into someone elses and dojo be able to jump right into whatever they were practicing. They might do it a little differently than us, but the fundamentals I acquired by studying IRT served me well wherever else I trained! Throughout the years Brian (My instructor) has brought in various martial artists from around the world to teach seminars and help us grow in that particular area of whatever they were teaching. Among these other instructors I would say that the one I enjoyed training with the most was Grandmaster Jerson Nene Tortal of Dekiti Tirsia Siradas Kali (not saying that the other werent all awesome as well!) In a few more years I was ready for my second testing. this included more of the same but of course with more advanced curriculum, and more intense sparring (at this point I had already started using real rattan sticks wearing only knee/elbow pads and a fencing mask...ouch) I have been able to apply techniques learned in IRT in a somewhat real environment as well (cagefighting) to my success. This taught me alot about how important stamina is in a violent encounter, and it was alot of fun! I only did that a couple times because I dont really think its worth risking your health so that fight promoters can make money off you, but I was able to walk away with a victory both times, and I think I owe that to my training in IRT. Today I have reached the point where I am getting pretty good at teaching the material ive learned to others, and I hope to reach Associate Instructor level (the first black belt ranking in our system) within the next year. During the course of my IRT training I somehow fell out of my aikido training due to...well....I still honestly cant figure out why I really stopped. However, I have recently resumed my aikido training and all I have to say is.....I am seriously glad I quit when I did! Why you ask? Because I am rediscovering it all over again in a brand new light....with a deeper appreciation for what it truly is....I am falling head over heels in love with it like never before, and I can say without a doubt in my mind that I will never fall off the path again!! I will continue to train in both arts, using each one to supplement the other as I continue to grow into a more complete human being/martial artist.
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