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Roman Kremianski
08-25-2006, 05:21 PM
Now I know everyone preaches Aikido is all about unbalancement and using your whole body and all of that good stuff, but what about when you simply can't grip someone's hand because they're significantly larger then you?

Nikyo is virtually impossible to do as I can't even wrap my hand around for the lock on some people, and all they have to do is give some light resistance to slip out of my hold.

Same with sanyko. Especially when they make a fist, it's like trying to put a sankyo on a bowling ball.

Any insight on this would be great.

-Confused as hell :confused:

Mike Hamer
08-25-2006, 06:38 PM
Hmmm perhaps some super glue would help?

Seriously though? I have no idea.

Janet Rosen
08-25-2006, 06:48 PM
you grasp what you CAN. i have had instructors show me how to apply, say, sankyo via grasping uke's pinkie--just as I show people how to apply kotegaishe to my forearm because of my bad wrist--what we call techniques are applied principles of body movement so work in a variety of ways. I bet that your instructor will always be able to show you a variant that will work for you.

Karen Wolek
08-25-2006, 08:19 PM
I bet that your instructor will always be able to show you a variant that will work for you.

Yup. Ask your sensei. Mine is always willing to show us a variation or two. :D

mickeygelum
08-25-2006, 10:11 PM
No strength equals broken balance.....even in a monotone training environment...sankyo is a sword movement, treated it as such and it will be much more effective...

Miku-san

Roman Kremianski
08-25-2006, 10:18 PM
Yes I know it's a sword movment. Only difference is that the sword handle is thin enough enough for me to actually grasp it.

I'll ask my sensei though. Ofcourse he has bear paws, so I am hoping he'll come up with something that actually works.

Leiv
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
I am not experienced enough to give advice on how to over come your trouble but I can tell you that it is not impossible. I say this because my wife, who has tiny little hands, can 2,3,4 kyo my can all over the living room when I misbehave.
Sensei knows best.

Brad Pruitt
08-26-2006, 01:06 AM
I am not experienced enough to give advice on how to over come your trouble but I can tell you that it is not impossible. I say this because my wife, who has tiny little hands, can 2,3,4 kyo my can all over the living room when I misbehave.
Sensei knows best.
It's tempting but I won't go there. It sure is tempting though.

klimber
08-26-2006, 03:07 PM
I know this is kinnda irrelevent...but why not. In climbing, people's hands are often larger than normal due to ...well...climbing. Anyway this thing called the Ape Index gives you a number based in how much bigger your hand is than what is the norm for such a person. So people with a big number have big (apey - dont know if thats a word) hands. And smalller is more normal, although the apier the better in climbing...maybe aikido too :p .

Anyway...so yeah thats my random thought for this thread. Thanks for the inspiration.

johnathon

deepsoup
08-26-2006, 06:12 PM
Anyway this thing called the Ape Index gives you a number based in how much bigger your hand is than what is the norm for such a person

Not true. When climbers talk about "ape index" they're referring to how long a person's arms are. The average person's span from hand to hand is the same as their height. (See Leonardo Da Vinci's 'Vitruvian Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_man)') A person's ape index is the difference, in inches, between their armspan and their height. If you have a positive ape index, it means you have longer than average arms relative to your height.

And big hands are not necessarily an advantage for climbing - what you gain on the fist-jams and slopers you lose on the finger jams and the crimps.

[/hijack]

Mary Turner
08-26-2006, 07:00 PM
Roman,
my hands are much smaller than my uke's in my school. I got advice handed down from Richard Price Sensei of Kure Beach, who teaches a class for female law enforcement. Just as Janet says, you can grab the last two fingers, you can grab the base of the thumb "the drumstick" for kote gaeshi, etc. There are lots of adjustments you can make for differences in size.

Good luck!
Mary

klimber
08-26-2006, 07:12 PM
Sean,
Ok that clears a lot up :D . Its been a while since I've chatted about that. Anyway....I wasnt too far off, right :p . And about the hand size...slopers always seem to give me a pain...but at the same time i find crimps easier than dudes who go for the slopes....so i guess its a trade.
Anywho...srry bout the mix up and thanks for the clear up.

Johnathon

crbateman
08-26-2006, 08:25 PM
Grab 'em by the nose hairs... They'll go where you want 'em... :D

Mark Freeman
08-27-2006, 07:22 AM
Grab 'em by the nose hairs... They'll go where you want 'em... :D

:uch: that just made my eyes water :uch:

seank
08-27-2006, 05:22 PM
Hi Roman,
Two things to think about:

You have two hands
Grabbing effectively stops a technique


With sankyo, try using both hands, but remember that unbalancing will have a big impact on putting uke in a vulnerable position.

Whilst trying nikkyo think about guiding uke first then taking the grip; if you try to grip too early the technique stops and it makes it nearly impossible to find the right path.

My wife has very small hands compared to mine but through timing is able to perform very effective nikkyo and sankyo. Timing and balance seem to make the difference here; because she has smaller hands I believe she concentrates more on overcoming the difference by practicing timing.

With regard to uke forming a fist, ask them not to. Its not really a reasonable way to train if uke knows what the technique is and has time to prepare a response like forming a fist to stop nikkyo.

Unless these people are prepared to train with full-contact atemi and the likes (wherein they would respond naturally instead of preemptively) they are only cheating you out of the opportunity to learn.

Having witnessed an accidental atemi contact at full speed about three weeks ago, it was amazing (and a reaffirmation) to see ukes reaction. There was no thinking of avoiding the technique or forming fists, or doing other things to stop nage. The person took about three steps backwards and just stood on the spot totally stunned. Nage in this instance was also stunned because they hadn't intended the atemi to actually hit, but you get the point ;)

Jess McDonald
08-27-2006, 10:07 PM
:confused: What the hell is a crimp? a sloper/ What were the other ones... toe jam and ... something er other...?? :eek: :confused: whats going on here!! what are we talking about!!! :blush: climbing right?? sweet ;)

Oh yeah about the whole small hand thing I'll go with the suggestion of tweaking out a thumb cause that's just cool :D

odudog
08-28-2006, 10:22 AM
If you have small hands, then always use both of them when doing sankyo. Also, if uke makes a fist, then just grab the fist with both hands and twist as normal. You are applying the lock to the wrist, not the hand. Remember to use your hips. Your hips are much stronger than the uke's fist so your hips will win eventually.

Marc Randolph
08-28-2006, 05:25 PM
Yes I know it's a sword movment. Only difference is that the sword handle is thin enough enough for me to actually grasp it. [...]

Yes, but how does the sword do sankyo, when it has no hands at all with which to grasp uke?

My interpretation of what I've been taught: A little off-balance results in uke pushing back for a little bit of support. As uke starts to recover (wait for uke!), he tends to use tori (or the sword) for a slight bit of support. If that support (tori) continues moving at the same rate as uke, uke will be in a constant state of off-balance and will continue pushing, looking for support. Tori simply leads uke in this manner, every so slightly, through the whole technique. Note that if tori moves too quickly, or with too much energy, or not enough energy, uke will likely find a way to recover. I've seen this work on most aikido techniques.

If someone has a better explaination of this process, please feel free...

Marc