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fullerfury
08-09-2006, 08:40 PM
Hello. I just wanted to post this account of what transpired at the end of class tonight. After 18 years of training, I finally feel like I was able to use it for good use. BTW, it turns out the girl in the story was 14 and the guy was 18. This is the actual police report transcript.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At approximately 9:15pm on Wednesday August 9, 2006, while my colleagues and I were training at the Amerikick Karate Studio in Phoenixville PA, I heard screaming from the parking lot
outside. I went out the door and saw a black man wearing a white shirt forcefully pulling a white girl from the end of the parking
lot into the wooded area. She was yelling and it was evident that she did not want to go with him. I yelled "what is going on?" and rushed over to the area.
My colleagues Eric Weber, Tim Shutter, Roger Fraley and Ted Chiaravalloti follwed. At this point I also noticed a man walking a dog who also witnessed the account and
heard the screaming from the girl.

I approached the black man and white girl and asked the girl if she knew the man. She said "yes". I asked her if she wanted to be
with him and if she was safe. She said "yes". The man spoke up and said "Hey, she is my girl friend. We we're just having an argument. You know how it is".
I noticed the man had a tattoo on his inner arm which contained the letters JC.

I asked the girl again if she was sure she was ok. She said "yes". She did not appear ok to me however. It was obvious that
the man was intimidating her, and I had just witnessed her struggling against him as he pulled her away.
I asked once more if she was ok and if she wanted to go with him. She said "yes".

She and the black male began moving towards the townhouse complex behind the karate studio. He again was aggressively pulling at her and
holding her as he led her away from the parking lot.

About 10 seconds passed and some young kids walked up from Schukyl Road into the parking lot in front of Amerikick Karate. I asked them
if they knew that girl. They responded "yes". I asked them if they knew the black man she was with. They responded "yes". I
asked them if he was a bad guy and if she was safe with him. They said "No she is not safe with him". One of the young boys had a cell phone. I asked for it
and dialed 911 and contacted the East Pikeland Police Department.

In addition there was a bicycle left in the middle of the parking lot, as if someone had quickly jumped off it and dumped it.
The young kids who knew the girl said it belonged to the black man.

------------------------------------------------

The story ends with the man being handcuffed and carted away in the back of the police cruiser. The cop said he was not a model citizen. As I left the scene after speaking with the officer, I noticed the father of the 14 year old girl pull up in a mini van.

xuzen
08-10-2006, 01:12 AM
Bah... no broken arms? No spilling of blood? The above post is so sanitized. Just kidding.

Good job of handling yourself and others without the need to resort to violence and you guys may have just saved the 14 y/o teenager's life.

Boon.

Ron Tisdale
08-10-2006, 08:04 AM
Very glad everyone is ok. Looking forward to seeing you on Sunday...

Best,
Ron

Jim Sorrentino
08-10-2006, 08:06 AM
Hi Garrett,

Good work! Breaking up a domestic dispute is always difficult and often unrewarding. I hope the girl gets the help she needs.

Jim

Eric Webber
08-10-2006, 08:52 AM
Domestics are never pretty, and are never clear and simple. The girl was obviously scared and anxious, but would not say "no" to going with the dude, and would not say she wanted to us to intervene further. Makes intervening a tough thing, but I contend nonetheless, the right thing in this particular situation. I do not envy law enforcement officers who deal with these types of domestic craziness on a regular basis.

Nice job, Garrett. See you Sunday.

fullerfury
08-10-2006, 10:37 AM
Thanks guys. It just reminds me how random situations may occur where all this culmination of training can have a significant impact...but only if we recognize that it is 'now' the time to act. We could have just easily allowed what what was going on outside in the parking lot to not have impacted what we were at that moment doing, and who knows what affect on the young girls life that lack of action in that moment could have been. Again, thanks for the words of encouragement, but I was not alone in my actions.

Janet Rosen
08-10-2006, 07:30 PM
I would NOT call a 14 yr old girl being bullied or abused by an older boyfriend a "domestic dispute."

gdandscompserv
08-10-2006, 10:01 PM
I would NOT call a 14 yr old girl being bullied or abused by an older boyfriend a "domestic dispute."
AGREED!

Eric Webber
08-11-2006, 09:37 AM
I would NOT call a 14 yr old girl being bullied or abused by an older boyfriend a "domestic dispute."

Please do not take this as argumentative, but what would you label this interaction if not a "domestic dispute"? What do you not like about the term domestic dispute? Thanks for your input.

Ron Tisdale
08-11-2006, 10:32 AM
Heck, how do you define "domestic dispute"? If a necessary componant is residing in the same domicile, no, then it's not a domestic dispute. But it seems as if that would not bring out the implied anger in your response, so I must assume there is some other basis for it. Could you elaborate?

Best,
Ron

dps
08-11-2006, 10:48 AM
but what would you label this interaction if not a "domestic dispute"? . A man dragging a fourteen year old girl against her will into a wooded area.. Can anyone remember something like this on the news where the girl ends up raped and killed? Would you call it a domestic dispute if it was your fourteen year old daughter?

Ron Tisdale
08-11-2006, 11:09 AM
Ah, so the flash point is whether or not "domestic dispute" is a serious enough moniker? People (partcipants, bystanders, and LEOs) get KILLED in "domestic disputes". Serious enough for me...

Best,
Ron

Huker
08-11-2006, 11:21 AM
She might also have been intimidated by later consequences from the abuser. My cousin was in a similar situation where he came across a "boyfriend" being a little too aggressive with his girlfriend. Although she was being abused verbally and physically at the time, she insisted my cousin go away.

Kinda puzzling, but it emphasizes the lasting importance of knowing how to defend yourself. I'm sure if the girl took his eye out and broke his knee he'd leave her alone afterwards. Oh well.

This is actually something I was thinking about today. I walked into a bookstore in the mall today. I always make a point to stop by the martial arts section to see if ther are any good books. Over the past year or so, I've noticed that martial arts books have taken a back seat. Today there was only "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" on the shelf next to a bunch of wrestling and body building books. I admit it was a smaller bookstore, but even the larger ones don't have too many. Just a passing comment...I don't want to change the discussion or anything.

dps
08-11-2006, 11:29 AM
People (partcipants, bystanders, and LEOs) get KILLED in "domestic disputes". Serious enough for me...

Best,
Ron No arguement about domestic disputes. The story was not about a domestic dispute. Applying monikers diminishes the seriousness of what happened. It should be seen as Mr. Fuller saw it, a fourteen year old girl being dragged into a wooded area.

Ron Tisdale
08-11-2006, 11:36 AM
moniker

n : a familiar name for a person (often a shortened version of a person's given name); "Joe's mother would not use his nickname and always called him Joseph"; "Henry's nickname was Slim" [syn: nickname, cognomen, sobriquet, soubriquet]

So technically, I mis-used the word moniker...but I still do not see how refering to this event as a domestic dispute (we don't know whether they reside together or not, and many people would refer to the boyfriend / girlfriend thingy as being somewhat domestic) diminishes the seriousness of what happened. Jim S. made a rather simple statement of support...and I wonder how the PC police got involved in that.

Best,
Ron (I guess it shouldn't surprise me...it's like a friggin virus these days...)

dps
08-11-2006, 11:39 AM
moniker

n : a familiar name for a person (often a shortened version of a person's given name); ".and I wonder how the PC police got involved in that.

Best,
Ron (I guess it shouldn't surprise me...it's like a friggin virus these days...)
Not PC police, no friggin virus, father of preteen daughter.

fullerfury
08-11-2006, 11:56 AM
The police department has pressed charges against the young man in question, aggravated assault. They have asked me to show up during a preliminary hearing on Thursday am to give my account.

Ron Tisdale
08-11-2006, 12:09 PM
Good for them! Hopefully her family will insist on the process being completed.

Best,
Ron

Guilty Spark
08-11-2006, 12:49 PM
Parents need to get involved in their kids lives more.

13 year old girls with webcames. Bad idea. (Go take a look at youtube)
10 year old kids walking around with tops showing their stomach.
Thongs being sold in the kids department.
14 year old kids dating much older guys? Retarded. I've heard of 16 year olds dating 30 year olds.

Whether you call it domestic abuse or atempted this or that, a guy dragging a 14 year old girl into a house or anywhere for that matter is garbage.

Ron Tisdale
08-11-2006, 12:55 PM
I think on that we are all agreed.

Best,
Ron

dps
08-11-2006, 01:26 PM
I think on that we are all agreed.

Best,
RonYes :)

Eric Webber
08-11-2006, 01:48 PM
I never thought I would be happy about being subpoened for testimony, but in this case it feels pretty good.

Brion Toss
08-11-2006, 02:50 PM
Lead definition for "Domestic" in the American Heritage: Of or relating to the family or household: [i.e.] domestic chores.
"Domestic Partner", from the same source, is: a person with whom one cohabits in a domestic relationship.
A google of "Domestic Dispute" shows the term is fairly broadly used, but usually refers to trouble between domestic partners. The trouble I have with using this term here is that we are talking about a child being dragged into the woods by an adult; not to be too picky, but aren't there more accurate terms for something like that? Assault? Rape? Pederasty? Calling something a domestic dispute seems to imply some level of equality, and/or family structure, and that clearly wasn't present here.
Regarding the PC mention, that term is generally brough up as a way to muzzle distinctions: "Oh, you're just being PC." But there's nothing political about this, nor yet correct, in the sense of ideologically correct, so why bring it up?

Jim Sorrentino
08-12-2006, 03:57 PM
Brion,

I used the term "domestic dispute" because there was an already existing relationship between the 18-year-old male and the 14-year-old female. Alas, assaults sometimes happen in relationships --- and when they do, it is often difficult for bystanders and law enforcement to determine whether to intervene precisely because of the already existing relationship.

"Pederasty" is probably not an appropriate term for what happened in this situation. Many states have exceptions in their child sexual abuse laws for situations in which there is a small difference in age between the participants. In Maryland, it was four years: an 18-year-male who had consensual sex with a 13-year-old female may be charged with statutory rape, but if the female is 14 or older, the statutory rape charge would not stand. I do not know if this is the case in Pennsylvania, but it would not surprise me if it were so.

I certainly did not mean to minimize the aggressive nature of the 18-year-old's conduct --- rather, I was taking note of the difficulty in this situation in protecting someone who appears ambivalent about her need for protection.

Jim

Charles
08-12-2006, 05:04 PM
"Pederasty" is pretty specific, it refers to the practice of an adult male getting his jollies upon a postpubescent, male youth. Perhaps you're thinking "ephebophilia" which is the sexual attraction to teenagers. But both suggest a certain amount of consent and so "biastophilia", sexual pleasure from committing rape, might be just the term that you are after.

However, there's really no reading the situation from the outside. Do you really think a 14 year old is going to be honest about her sexual habits and intentions around her father? Perhaps the guy is her boy friend, a vey unhealthy boy friend.

That said, once there is a cry for help you have to act. The law and the experts can sort it out later. But be careful. My brother in law say a guy beating a woman in the center of an intersection down town one night. He stepped in and she started beating on him.

Guilty Spark
08-12-2006, 08:59 PM
However, there's really no reading the situation from the outside. Do you really think a 14 year old is going to be honest about her sexual habits and intentions around her father? Perhaps the guy is her boy friend, a vey unhealthy boy friend.

Parents need to get involved.

Lyle Bogin
08-18-2006, 07:07 AM
Well done.

Ron Tisdale
08-18-2006, 08:08 AM
The reason I brought up the PC was the focus on the wording, rather than the sentiment of support that Jim offered. In my mind, when we pick apart a little too much the specific terms used, in spite of the obvious meaning of support, it often denotes that kind of Politically Correct attitude of forcing our views about language on others.

But in this case, I now think the objection came from a much more natural place, based on at least one of the posters' clarification. He has kids himself, and wanted to emphasis the seriousness of this attack. No harm, no foul. ;)

Best,
Ron

Lan Powers
08-18-2006, 01:43 PM
Very true about the kids issues...
Any parent has the same gut-response whenever the "kids in danger" is perceived.
Any responsible parent at least.

Wait till you have grandkids running around to make you hyper vigilant. You have just enough "life Experiance" to see clearly the parents lacks.....(or to project your fears onto the situation, my own kind of issue.
The absolute worst nightmares I have ever had involved innocent children and being unable, powerless, too far out of reach....etc. etc.

Kind of breaking into a cold sweat thinking about it. :disgust:
Lan

Eric Webber
08-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Thought I would provide an update on the situation, and hopefully some closure for those concerned, as well.

The defendent had appeared in court last week without an attorny, the judge gave a week continuence for him to secure a public defender (PD), and gave today as the court day. Today the defendent showed again without a PD, the judge simply appointed the PD in the courtroom as his counsel, and they proceeded.

Long story short, because we could place the defendent at the scene acting in a particular manner, they could have gotten him on some of the charges without issue (harassment,terroistic threats, most likely); there were some other surrounding factors that brought a stalking charge into question, and the defendent was counseled to take a plea bargain. Ultimately, he made a deal to enter into treatment for his behaviors in lieu of doing time for the charges. I do hope this helps in the rehabilitation process.

Thank you for your input and interest in this event and forum.