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Don_Modesto
08-04-2006, 04:43 PM
Maybe the ref never heard of aikido, but it looks like he opened up a can of Isoyama...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7004591928211347712&hl=en

NagaBaba
08-04-2006, 08:40 PM
That is rather koshi nage I believe....very nice one!

Don_Modesto
08-04-2006, 10:10 PM
That is rather koshi nage I believe....very nice one!
Could be. We ASU folk don't do that well on terminology.

A question, then Szczepan: What do you call the "IRIMI NAGE," like that done by Ikeda or Mary Heiny, where NAGE simply walks UKE's head away from his feet? There's no IRIMI that I discern. KOKYU NAGE?

Thanks.

sullivanw
08-04-2006, 11:42 PM
Interesting perspectives...

When I first saw the video I was thinking Koshi, but come to think of it the body movement is a lot like an Irimi Nage that we do sometimes...

Let's Vote:

1) Irimi Nage
2) Koshi Nage
3) Don't know but really cool

I vote (3)

-Will

jason jordan
08-05-2006, 12:08 AM
Interesting perspectives...


Let's Vote:

1) Irimi Nage
2) Koshi Nage
3) Don't know but really cool

I vote (3)

-Will

I vote(3) i believe it's (1) but that was freakin cool man, effortless!!!! :D :o

Hucqie
08-05-2006, 12:26 AM
I was taugh that for it to be irimi nage there must be the entry ie. irimi. The ref does not move his feet at all. My vote is for Koyku nage.

None the less, cool clip

batemanb
08-05-2006, 02:22 AM
I vote Iriminage.

The ref actually does quite a bit of irimi to the guy on the ropes before absorbing what's coming back at him. Doesn't bring the guy back over his hips at all, so no to koshi nage. I've seen some irirminage called kokyunage in Japan, could apply in this case too but I'll stick with irimi :).

Bryan

Mike Hamer
08-05-2006, 02:31 AM
I vote 3.

looked awesome.

I like how he pointed his finger at the second guy after throwing him off balance.

Aristeia
08-05-2006, 02:55 AM
irimi nage imo

grondahl
08-05-2006, 06:26 AM
iriminage

Tim Olds
08-05-2006, 09:18 AM
Looks a lot like a sumi otoshi (judo version)

Kevin Leavitt
08-05-2006, 01:10 PM
irimi nage

giriasis
08-05-2006, 02:41 PM
Iriminage with a lot of hip in the end.

Robert Rumpf
08-05-2006, 04:17 PM
Koshinage - look at the way his hips get under uke.
Rob

Qatana
08-05-2006, 06:58 PM
iriminage-uke is already in the air before he moves under.

NagaBaba
08-06-2006, 01:17 PM
Could be. We ASU folk don't do that well on terminology.

A question, then Szczepan: What do you call the "IRIMI NAGE," like that done by Ikeda or Mary Heiny, where NAGE simply walks UKE's head away from his feet? There's no IRIMI that I discern. KOKYU NAGE?

Thanks.
Looks to me that throw was made around ref hips so can be also called ....-otoshi?
A question, then Szczepan: What do you call the "IRIMI NAGE,
Iriminage starts with irimi(as all aikido techniques :p ) but then there are so many variants. I'd say, nage tries to enter behind attacker in his first step -- that will be iriminage.

Huker
08-06-2006, 03:11 PM
I'm not seeing Irimi Nage and I'm not seeing Koshi Nage. I think this is just your standard WWF-style choke slam. The ref looks like a pretty tough guy...and would have to be in order to climb into a ring with fighters that seem to have no problem trying to push him around.

From what I can tell, he does drop his hips, but doesn't use them to actually throw him. I'm pretty sure he just moved his lower body down so he could get enough upward power to lift the guy off the ground. This may also explain why it looks so effortless.

Mark Freeman
08-06-2006, 03:43 PM
I didn't see any aikido as the guy the ref threw was not really attacking, also he had very little co-ordination, which helped the ref to throw him pretty easily.

Well done to the ref for showing who's boss :cool:

Aristeia
08-06-2006, 04:17 PM
The only way the ref was able to take him around, down and up like that (unless he's *monster* strong) would be to blend with force. Which implies the other guy was pushing into him, ergo, an attack. Blend with the direction of the attack, cut down, allow uke to come up and blend with that motion to take them off their feet. Sounds like irimi nage to me.

NagaBaba
08-06-2006, 04:56 PM
I didn't see any aikido as the guy the ref threw was not really attacking,
I believe you dont need any physical attack to do aikido.

NagaBaba
08-06-2006, 04:58 PM
From what I can tell, he does drop his hips, but doesn't use them to actually throw him.
Have you ever tried to throw 50 kg sand bag like that?If not, it would be good experience :p

Nick P.
08-06-2006, 10:01 PM
Nice find, Don.

I vote iriminage; a really, really small circle. Reminded me of this
http://www.aikidofaq.com/video/fujita_irimi.mov

I was always thought koshinage was was defined as uke would go up and over nage (which is the same as saying nage goes under uke). More like this
http://www.aikidofaq.com/video/bookman_koshinage.mov

Either way, uke certainly got put up, and then down.

Aikilove
08-07-2006, 05:03 AM
The only way the ref was able to take him around, down and up like that (unless he's *monster* strong) would be to blend with force. Which implies the other guy was pushing into him, ergo, an attack. Blend with the direction of the attack, cut down, allow uke to come up and blend with that motion to take them off their feet. Sounds like irimi nage to me.
The other guy wasn't pushing... The ref got angry when the guy started to show him no respect. So the ref shoved him into the ropes, left hand holding guys right arm, and right hand secured by the guys neck - added his own momentum, and used the spring effect of the ropes to give the guy momentum the ref could then blend with and add some of his own to.
I agree... in that respect it looked more like WWF wrestling then aikido. Although aikido could be used in an identical way. Very simiar to tenchi nage in my opinion...

/J

Aristeia
08-07-2006, 05:33 AM
Hmmm....you may be right Jakob. The video seems to jump just at that moment so it's hard to tell. I was going to argue with you on tenchi nage but on closer inspection he does appear to have more control of that arm than I thought.

Ron Tisdale
08-07-2006, 08:50 AM
I have seen iriminage done in that small way before...very nice waza. I have no clue exactly how the ref did it...but in other instances, it seemed the power came from nage's connection with the ground, through the bones, and into uke. It's almost like uke has their center lifted somehow, and the body simply follows that. The few times it's fallen into place for me the uke actually went in a circle around shite's upper body, but there was no perception of holding or lifting their weight. Really nice feeling both as shite and uke. Nice find, Don!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
08-07-2006, 08:54 AM
Another quick thought, I have noticed that a very small movement in 'opening the body' can produce a very large affect, even in the absence of uke's power. I believe that is what might have happened here...the ref naturally 'opened his body', and uke naturally followed.

Best,
Ron

ian
08-07-2006, 09:17 AM
That was good use of body movement by the ref and I would classify as irimi-nage. Notice the push against the other person as well (like an extension). He must have done ju-jitsu or aikido. I would say we would practise irimi-nage in a similar way sometimes. There is movement of the body and entering (even if the feet aren't moving)

Aikilove
08-07-2006, 09:34 AM
Take a look at the close up slow motion in the end of the clips. There no "following" done by the guy being tossed on his ***. The ref pushes him in the ropes (with one hand securing the guys right arm and the other hand up towards his throat. Next he let the left hand slip up behind the guys neck (securing it). Now the ref lean back and uses the spring action of the rope to get the guy with him as hi pulls him towards himself. The refs left leg block the guys feet from regaining balans properly as he is pulled forward. Next he uses his obvious superiour strength and size to lift the guy of his feet (by his neck and torso) as he is coming forward. That's it! The momentum brings the guys legs forward while his head and torso is being projected up - back - down in order.
I'll have to agree that the aiki equivalent would in my eyes be iriminage since I now noticed the switch of hand positions.

/J

aikidoc
08-07-2006, 09:57 AM
I vote irimi nage. This is very similar to the way my sensei does it. He turns his hips and lifts up, never cutting down, and then reverses his hips throwing the person. Agreed, his feet do not move but his body draws back and then enters in my opinion. Nice job. Looks like the competitor pissed him off.

Dennis Hooker
08-07-2006, 10:09 AM
Looks more like WWF and a Vince McMann production.