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rev.jc
07-19-2006, 03:17 AM
My name is James, I run a small not for profit Martial arts sanctioning body, we hold charity shows in Boxing,Karate,Kickboxing& Vale-Tudo(mma). Our shows cater to those who would like to try the combat arts, but work outside the professional fight field, we have developed our own grappling gloves that are 12 0z & all boxing and kickboxing bouts use 14 or 160z gloves.

All fighters recieve a sweatshirt, and winners recieve a Title belt & a chance to fight again on our next card (you keep the belt) currently we have no one who has trained in Akido, and being a grappling art I thought some may be interested.

The Empire State Warrior Challenge will be held Dec 9th outside Albany Ny at the BKW senior high school all proceedes from this event, (and by all we have no paid employees) will go to the family of Harold Cameron a local grappler and high school wrestler crippled in a logging accident at the family farm, this event is key because Harold is eligible for an experimental procedure that may allow him to walk again, but it is costly,

the weight classes are as follows;
Lightweight 160 and under
Welterweight 161 -175
Middleweight 176-188
LightHeavyweight 189 -208
Heavyweight 209 +

please call me at 518-872-9239 or e-mail me at
revjamesmullooly@yahoo.com if interested
if you e-mail leave a postal address where I can send you an application, our websight will be up soon but I am very low tech,

thank you for allowing me some of your time!

DonMagee
07-19-2006, 07:30 AM
That sounds like a good cause. If I was near the area I would jump on the chance. But I'm way over here in indiana.

statisticool
07-22-2006, 11:14 PM
Re: "anyone want to try MMA!"

Nope. :) My reasons are:

-Too much competitiveness
-Too much emphasis on sport
-Too much ego involved
-Too easy to get injured
-Skills get spread thinly over many martial arts, instead of high skill in one
-General ignoring of non-fighting aspects of martial arts

shadowedge
07-23-2006, 03:00 AM
Some of my sensei taught me that Aikido is not for sport...

Can anyone shed some light on this? I understand Aikido should be a martial art of "love"... but for a long time I've been searching for why we never hold tournaments and such...

All I know is we don't compete, for reasons of virtue, and "love" thats why Ive always been obedient, no questions asked. :)

but since its been brought up here, it might be a good time to ask :)

incidentally, is there also reference to O-sensei's teachings as to why we don't compete for sport?

thanks...

Upyu
07-23-2006, 10:02 AM
[QUOTE=Justin Smith
-Too much competitiveness
-Too much emphasis on sport
-Too much ego involved
-Too easy to get injured
-Skills get spread thinly over many martial arts, instead of high skill in one
-General ignoring of non-fighting aspects of martial arts[/QUOTE]

Typical excuses. All of them invalid since really its the individual that determines those things ;)

I find this one especially true
"-Skills get spread thinly over many martial arts, instead of high skill in one"
Sure, for the most part. If someone has a "high skill" in one art, he should be able to apply it to whatever format he pleases :D

Guilty Spark
07-23-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm not very interested in compitition or sport for many of the same reasons as Justin.

I find there is way too much unhealthy compitition, bad sportsmanship and people who take things way too far/way to seriously. Too many people with huge egos.
It's easy to go from having fun to being stressed out with little gain.

statisticool
07-23-2006, 11:31 AM
All of them invalid since really its the individual that determines those things ;)


That made no sense. These are "my" reasons, as stated. I'm not saying they are "the" reasons, or that they apply to others.


Sure, for the most part.


So it is "invalid" but you partially agree with it? LOL.

Upyu
07-23-2006, 07:36 PM
That made no sense. These are "my" reasons, as stated. I'm not saying they are "the" reasons, or that they apply to others.



So it is "invalid" but you partially agree with it? LOL.

Partially agree, in that most mmaers stick to the technique level in whatever art they choose to use in the ring. But I still think its up to the individual as to whether or not that statement holds true. ;)

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 08:12 AM
I'm not very interested in compitition or sport for many of the same reasons as Justin.

I find there is way too much unhealthy compitition, bad sportsmanship and people who take things way too far/way to seriously. Too many people with huge egos.
It's easy to go from having fun to being stressed out with little gain.

People always say this. I've been to MMA shows all over the midwest. I have yet to meet a fighter with a bad attitude, poor sportsmanship or a huge ego. In fact the only people I have ever met who were like this were in a BJK ninja school downtown. And the only people I ever here bring this up are people who seem to need an excuse not to compete vs just saying "I dont want to feel how I feel when I think about competition.". Instead they blame it on others.

Upyu
07-24-2006, 08:26 AM
People always say this. I've been to MMA shows all over the midwest. I have yet to meet a fighter with a bad attitude, poor sportsmanship or a huge ego. In fact the only people I have ever met who were like this were in a BJK ninja school downtown. And the only people I ever here bring this up are people who seem to need an excuse not to compete vs just saying "I dont want to feel how I feel when I think about competition.". Instead they blame it on others.

Oooh snap! And yet so true :D

Guilty Spark
07-24-2006, 10:54 AM
People always say this. I've been to MMA shows all over the midwest. I have yet to meet a fighter with a bad attitude, poor sportsmanship or a huge ego.

And I've been to a competition and watched a girl bash her head off a door and break her hand punching a wall because she was pissed off she lost. Guessing too much pressure on her. Walking around after wards I heard a lot of bitching about stupid refs, bad calls, arguments among parents. you name it.
This isn't purely martial arts either. I've been to shooting competitions, paintball games, obstacle courses, hockey and volleyball games, motocross.
I'm glad you've been lucky and never met someone with a poor attitude and I hope you never do my friend. It really takes the fun out of things.

I get the feeling many people who do compete put unfair pressure on people who don't. They want (need?) to know why they don't compete and often ridicule the persons reasons for not wanting to. This thread may be perfect example. Justin doesn't want to compete because he doesn't like the environment and it becomes " a typical excuse". Sounds condescending doesn't it?
Now in Roberts defense maybe he didn't mean it in a negative way, maybe he meant it's as just a common reason, if so I apologize.

If someone doesn't want to compete who cares, they shouldn't need an excuse to validate their reasons. Competitors seem defensive about it. Well why don't you compete? Whats wrong you scared? Don't give me an excuse just say your a wimp. They almost seem to take offense that someone doesn't like doing what they do.

I love paintball and being an infantry soldier it's right up my ally. I stopped playing paintball because it seemed like every game I went to ended in people being accused of cheating, people fighting with the refs, people taking the game way too seriously and everyone leaving stressed and pissed off.
I don't need that kind of stress or cryassing on my (limited) free time.
Some people see that side of the sport and others don't, I've envious of the ones who are oblivious to it or can tune it out.

I'm sure some of the people who ruined the game for me will consider my reasons for quitting a "typical excuse". In hindsight maybe it IS typical because a lot of people DO just get fed up and quit.

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 11:52 AM
I dont care if people want to compete. However I do care that non competition martial artists make competition martial artists out to be ego driven jerks with no sportsmanship who crave only to hurt people.

If they just said, "I dont enjoy competition", or "I dont like how it feels to lose", or "I can't risk the injury", or "I used to compete, but now I dont like the politics", or "I respect my sensei's wishes to not compete", or "I dont like the ego and agression that comes out of me when I compete", or any other honest responses, I would be fine. Most of the time though people are projecting their fears and feelings onto competition martial artists instead of just saying that is how they feel. I met a instructor who said they didn't compete because his students were 'above' the ego driven testosterone filled meat heads who needed competition to prove something to themselves. I asked him how he knew I was like that? I asked him if he ever competed before? That answer was he had no insight into me, and he had never competed before. So where was this opinion from? His master told him this is how guys like me are.

Now sparing is a different matter entirely. I do like to push people to spar and feel it is important. In fact most people think that when a bjj or judo guy pushes people to spar they are pushing them to compete. This of course is wrong, sparing and competition are two different things.

Of course we just pooped all over a thread that was about supporting a charity.

dps
07-24-2006, 11:59 AM
Early on in the history of professional wrestling( pre 1940's) it was real. It wasn't sports entertainment, the matches were real, were about wrestling skills and went on for hours. Some people saw an opportunity to cash in on the sport by making it more entertaining and putting time limits on the matches to gain more people in the audience. More people in the audience meant more money made. With the advent of television the audience expanded and the wrestling became more entertainment and more money was made. Now days professional wrestling is all entertainment, lots of money and no wrestling skill.
MMA is on the same (although quicker) track. It will be all about entertainment to make money and less about martial arts skill.

deepsoup
07-24-2006, 12:00 PM
If someone doesn't want to compete who cares, they shouldn't need an excuse to validate their reasons. Competitors seem defensive about it.

That's not my experience at all, especially with something like James is offering. Its more like "Don't want to compete? Yeah, can't say I blame you, I love it but sometimes I have to wonder if I'm a bit mad."

Around here (and other Aikido discussion forums) the boot is very much on the other foot, imo. It usually seems to be those who don't want to compete who're defensive.

Roberts reasons why he doesn't want to take part are most definitely *not* invalid. But they are irrelevant.

The OP has extended a perfectly civil offer to anyone who's interested in taking part in his event. There's no need whatsoever for anyone to justify why they're not interested, no reasons are required, just don't bother to reply.

Unless the response is intended to imply that the event is somehow morally suspect - a kind of "We don't compete, because we're morally superior" thing. In which case, it strikes me as extremely rude to crash the man's thread with that old chestnut. (I'm sure that wasn't Robert's intention though.)

Sean
x

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 12:13 PM
Early on in the history of professional wrestling( pre 1940's) it was real. It wasn't sports entertainment, the matches were real, were about wrestling skills and went on for hours. Some people saw an opportunity to cash in on the sport by making it more entertaining and putting time limits on the matches to gain more people in the audience. More people in the audience meant more money made. With the advent of television the audience expanded and the wrestling became more entertainment and more money was made. Now days professional wrestling is all entertainment, lots of money and no wrestling skill.
MMA is on the same (although quicker) track. It will be all about entertainment to make money and less about martial arts skill.


Would you say boxing is for entertainment only?

What about sports jiujitsu competition? Judo competition?

Just curious.

Guilty Spark
07-24-2006, 12:33 PM
MMA is on the same (although quicker) track. It will be all about entertainment to make money and less about martial arts skill.

Completely agree. I watched a lot of UFC (for example) when it first came out. Now it's just like the survivor island series.

The OP has extended a perfectly civil offer to anyone who's interested in taking part in his event. There's no need whatsoever for anyone to justify why they're not interested, no reasons are required, just don't bother to reply.
Roberts reasons why he doesn't want to take part are most definitely *not* invalid. But they are irrelevant.

I didn't consider that. Yes it was a perfectly civil offer. There isn't really a requirement to reply if you weren't directly asked and not interested. It's just opening yourself up to comments or maybe putting the foundation down for an argument. Personally I wouldn't go to an aikido message forum and look for people interested in boxing or competing. The same way I wouldn't go to a BJJ or kickboxing site and start suggesting they not compete. To each their own, James was just thowing the offer out. I'm more than certain James heart is in the right place.

Around here (and other Aikido discussion forums) the boot is very much on the other foot, imo. It usually seems to be those who don't want to compete who're defensive.

Agreed. Non competitors are used to having to defend themselves and why they don't want to compete. I'm sure the same can be said for people who DO compete having to defend themselves, it's just not as pronounced maybe? I have'n't seen it as much in anycase.

Now sparing is a different matter entirely. I do like to push people to spar and feel it is important. In fact most people think that when a bjj or judo guy pushes people to spar they are pushing them to compete. This of course is wrong, sparing and competition are two different things.

Don I know where you're comming from. Some people don't like competition because of the enviroment. Some don't like it for more personal reasons however they try to hide behind fabricated reasons (like you mentioned) and accuse others of shortcommings,ego etc.. It can be pretty hard to tell the difference between the two. The same way it's difficult to tell the difference between a competitor who enjoys sport and MA and one who has something to prove, feels like they have to beat people.
I'm with you on sparring being important. I think it's very important to have non scripted melees and freestyle stuff including resistance.

Back on topic :)

dps
07-24-2006, 12:42 PM
Would you say boxing is for entertainment only?

What about sports jiujitsu competition? Judo competition?

Just curious.
The "Sweet Science" has gone through its periods of more entertainment and less skill. I haven't followed boxing for many years and don't know about the present state of boxing.
I am not aware of any televised jujitsu or judo competition were they win alot of money.
I am not saying that the martial artists themselves are not serious or skilled or that persons should not cross train into other martial arts or even have competitions.
With the hype and money to provide entertainment to people who aren't martial artists ( like in professional wrestling) MMA will look alot like WWF.

deepsoup
07-24-2006, 12:55 PM
Personally I wouldn't go to an aikido message forum and look for people interested in boxing or competing.
James mentioned in his post that he's never had an entrant with an aikido background, so was specifically looking to see if such a person would be interested. I guess he's just curious to see what they'll bring with them.

Early on in the history of professional wrestling( pre 1940's) it was real. It wasn't sports entertainment... Now days professional wrestling is all entertainment, lots of money and no wrestling skill.
MMA is on the same (although quicker) track. It will be all about entertainment to make money and less about martial arts skill.

Professional sport has *always* been about entertainment, particularly in the form of gambling. Thats why there was/is money in it. That doesn't mean the athleticism involved isn't real though. Think Roger Bannister ran the first 4 minute mile in 1954? Think again. (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1208007,00.html)

Of course professional wrestling is pretty silly these days (if we're talking WWE type stuff). But would you count ukemi as martial skill? If you can show me a 300lb aikidoist who can take ukemi like those guys, I'll be seriously impressed.

Sean
x

Kevin Leavitt
07-24-2006, 01:10 PM
everyone should try a MMA or BJJ type competition once in their life. I am completely serious! I used to think along the same lines as many here, but I went, tried, and found it to be something completely different and illuminating!

I found that I really wasn't as good of a martial artist as I thought I was. Since I have been involved, my aikido has improved 10 fold, I can do many things at full speed, non-compliant ukes that I couldn't do in my aikido only years, and I am a much more proficient martial artist and budoka because of it.

Say what you want about competition and hide behind the etheral curtain of all that budo stuff, but if you really want to explore budo, you owe it to yourself to condition yourself, get in shape, train hard, and try it out!

It ain't for everyone, I understand that, but how can you say the things such as "it's ego driven", competition destroys the true art...and all that stuff until you have tried it. The ole "walk a mile in his shoes" adage comes to mind.

dps
07-24-2006, 01:19 PM
Professional sport has *always* been about entertainment, particularly in the form of gambling. Thats why there was/is money in it. But in the early history of wrestling there was not alot of money especially for the wrestler. Most of the spectators of that time were wrestlers and boxers, their friends and families and the wrestling was done for the appreciation of the skill.
]That doesn't mean the athleticism involved isn't real though. I agree, as long as the participants are athletes who are serious about demonstrating skills, and not actors playing a role, the athleticism will be real. However the opportunity to make big bucks can influence anyone.Of course professional wrestling is pretty silly these days (if we're talking WWE type stuff). But would you count ukemi as martial skill?
Yes. If you can show me a 300lb aikidoist who can take ukemi like those guys, I'll be seriously impressed.
I only weigh 235lb so I don't know. Is there any 300lb Aikidoist out there that would like to comment?

Upyu
07-24-2006, 01:53 PM
Roberts reasons why he doesn't want to take part are most definitely *not* invalid. But they are irrelevant.

The OP has extended a perfectly civil offer to anyone who's interested in taking part in his event. There's no need whatsoever for anyone to justify why they're not interested, no reasons are required, just don't bother to reply.
(I'm sure that wasn't Robert's intention though.)



Dude, you're confusing me with Justin :confused:
It's all good though. :D

Word up, on what you said though.
Nice post.

Upyu
07-24-2006, 02:04 PM
I am not aware of any televised jujitsu or judo competition were they win alot of money.

Sure, but have you seen the amount of advertising the BJJ guys like to wear on their patches? They're a walking advert for products jk :D

I'm pretty sure the Abu-Dhabi grappling tourney gives out an amount that's nothing to sneeze at ;)

deepsoup
07-24-2006, 02:16 PM
Dude, you're confusing me with Justin :confused:
Oops, sorry. :o

dps
07-24-2006, 02:19 PM
Sure, but have you seen the amount of advertising the BJJ guys like to wear on their patches? They're a walking advert for products jk :D No I haven't.

I'm pretty sure the Abu-Dhabi grappling tourney gives out an amount that's nothing to sneeze at ;)Never heard of it. I'll try not to sneeze. :)

Kevin Leavitt
07-24-2006, 02:34 PM
Those "sponsors" dump a fair amount of money and support into competitions, even on a local basis. So guys that wear the patches may not get paid, but most understand that supporting the sponsors pays off.

Kevin "pimp my gi" Leavitt

DonMagee
07-24-2006, 03:15 PM
I have no patches on my gi :-( I lose at bjj.

I actually have a lot of patches, just not time to sew them on. Of course they are all related to my club.

dps
07-24-2006, 03:29 PM
I have no patches on my gi :-( I lose at bjj.

I actually have a lot of patches, just not time to sew them on. Of course they are all related to my club.
My wife sews the patches on my gi so I don't advertise what the holes in my gi show.

Adman
07-24-2006, 04:40 PM
Of course we just pooped all over a thread that was about supporting a charity.You know, if I was younger, stronger, with more skills and felt less fragile (and wasn't so worried about hurting my pretty face), this sounds just like the opportunity that would have appealed to me. I mean, the outcome might be that someone would once again be able to walk!

Sounds like it would be a good-spirited event.

thanks,
Adam