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Paberu
07-01-2006, 03:53 PM
Hi all, one more iwama style aikido in Russia video clip!
http://www.iwamaivanovo.ru/video/rbi_oyowaza.wmv

Good luck!

aikigirl10
07-01-2006, 05:31 PM
To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai). There are long pauses in some of the techniques used, which makes it seem less effective, but on the other hand, it also seems more aggressive. Of course, i have no experience with this style of aikido so i really wouldn't know.

sullivanw
07-01-2006, 09:42 PM
Cool to watch; it looks pretty hardcore. With my ukemi skills, I would end up being broken little pieces of Will all over the stage!!

-Will

Mark Uttech
07-01-2006, 10:13 PM
I can just imagine the commentary at a sign language convention/seminar: "the signing of certain words was too choppy, the pauses between expressions were most unusual..." Hikisutchie Shihan put it rather bluntly one day: "When you see good aikido, you automatically know what bad aikido is..."

aikigirl10
07-01-2006, 10:17 PM
I can just imagine the commentary at a sign language convention/seminar: "the signing of certain words was too choppy, the pauses between expressions were most unusual..." Hikisutchie Shihan put it rather bluntly one day: "When you see good aikido, you automatically know what bad aikido is..."

wow, that sounded a little rude.... i even said i dont know much about this style... sorry i said anything...

villrg0a
07-02-2006, 05:16 AM
To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai). There are long pauses in some of the techniques used, which makes it seem less effective, but on the other hand, it also seems more aggressive. Of course, i have no experience with this style of aikido so i really wouldn't know.

Could it be that the long pauses were intentionally done to give uke the chance to recover to execute a safe fall?

Mark Uttech
07-02-2006, 06:19 AM
To Paige, I admit it did sound a little rude, so sorry. It was one of those 'automatic emotional responses' when we are taken by surprise with something we read or view. I dare to think that all
of us here on the internet find surprises like these: I've even given a poetic name to these surprises!
I simply refer to them as: "an arrow whistling in the dark." We act, and react, and sometimes we look back and are aghast at what we have done. What we really want to hear is someone telling us
"wow, you're lucky!"

mjchip
07-02-2006, 08:15 AM
Again, some of the BEST aikido demonstrations I've seen.

Mark

Don_Modesto
07-02-2006, 10:51 AM
Hi all, one more iwama style aikido in Russia video clip!
http://www.iwamaivanovo.ru/video/rbi_oyowaza.wmv

Good luck!

I like some of the moves very much. He seems a solid player, and his folks take nice UKEMI.

As was mentioned once before when Russian aikido vids were uploaded--I'd guess they're the same guy--the stuff looks very carefully choreographed, a point I make because we're likely going to see the terms "realistic" creep up with such a...vigorous...style.

As to the choppiness, watch Isoyama for choppy, Tada, sometimes, too.

Chris Li
07-02-2006, 11:31 AM
To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai).

What's "traditional aikikai"?

Best,

Chris

aikigirl10
07-02-2006, 04:00 PM
What's "traditional aikikai"?

Best,

Chris

traditional aikido, is all i've heard it described as.

aikikai is the affiliation i believe

Chris Li
07-02-2006, 07:05 PM
traditional aikido, is all i've heard it described as.

aikikai is the affiliation i believe

Iwama style (as in the video clip) is also Aikikai.

"Aikido" itself is only a little over 60 years old, which seems (to me) to make any "traditional" labels sort of strange. Anyway, the Aikikai is an umbrella organization that covers many different styles of practice.

Best,

Chris

aikigirl10
07-02-2006, 08:07 PM
Iwama style (as in the video clip) is also Aikikai.

"Aikido" itself is only a little over 60 years old, which seems (to me) to make any "traditional" labels sort of strange. Anyway, the Aikikai is an umbrella organization that covers many different styles of practice.

Best,

Chris

ok my bad about the aikikai part
As for the traditional label... it's just the original aikido that O sensei taught, with no sort of variations or anything... what would like me to call it chris?? I'll call it whatever u wish.

...jesus...

Chris Li
07-02-2006, 08:28 PM
ok my bad about the aikikai part
As for the traditional label... it's just the original aikido that O sensei taught, with no sort of variations or anything... what would like me to call it chris?? I'll call it whatever u wish.

...jesus...

The thing is, just about everybody (especially the Iwama style folks such as those in the video) claims that they are doing "the original Aikido that O sensei taught", but they're all doing things that are quite different.

Best,

Chris

aikigirl10
07-02-2006, 09:51 PM
The thing is, just about everybody (especially the Iwama style folks such as those in the video) claims that they are doing "the original Aikido that O sensei taught", but they're all doing things that are quite different.

Best,

Chris


whatever... i really dont care... no offense

----- edit -----

here is a link to our dojo's website

http://www.kyowva-aikikai.freeservers.com/

it even says on there "this is a traditional aikido dojo" That's all i've been taught.. im sorry if it's not up to par

Chris Li
07-02-2006, 10:40 PM
whatever... i really dont care... no offense

----- edit -----

here is a link to our dojo's website

http://www.kyowva-aikikai.freeservers.com/

it even says on there "this is a traditional aikido dojo" That's all i've been taught.. im sorry if it's not up to par

It's not about being up to par, it's that exactly what "traditional" Aikido or "the Aikido of the founder" means is by no means clear, and has been a common subject for disagreement. For one viewpoint, try http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=34

Best,

Chris

aikigirl10
07-02-2006, 10:59 PM
It's not about being up to par, it's that exactly what "traditional" Aikido or "the Aikido of the founder" means is by no means clear, and has been a common subject for disagreement. For one viewpoint, try http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=34

Best,

Chris

i would argue with u about that, i really would... but i just don't want to....

Paige ;)

Mark Uttech
07-02-2006, 11:02 PM
wow. lots of arrows whistling in the dark tonight!

aikigirl10
07-02-2006, 11:12 PM
wow. lots of arrows whistling in the dark tonight!

and really ugly owls...
that wasn't a metaphor or anything.


;)

Chris Li
07-03-2006, 02:54 AM
i would argue with u about that, i really would... but i just don't want to....

Paige ;)

Yes, I know, you really don't care (or that's what you said above). But you ought to, or at least, I think so. For me, it's important to examine the historical roots of Aikido and Morihei Ueshiba as a part and parcel of Aikido training, and the issues raised around phrases like "traditional Aikido" touch upon many important historical issues (and many philosophical ones as well).

Anyway, I thought the demonstrations were quite good, although carefully choreographed (that's not a bad thing).

Best,

Chris

aikigirl10
07-03-2006, 07:07 AM
Anyway, I thought the demonstrations were quite good

i agree

Pauliina Lievonen
07-03-2006, 12:29 PM
What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? :D.D :P

kvaak
Pauliina

dps
07-03-2006, 12:37 PM
What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? :D.D :P

kvaak
Pauliina
Yes, sir what do you think of this video compared to the video of the children's demonstration.? :)

NagaBaba
07-03-2006, 01:31 PM
What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? :D.D :P

kvaak
Pauliina
You know Pauliina, for me aikido practice is not a circus or show. Demo to promote aikido must mirror daily practice, not develop false choreography like in the theatre.

That's why; in this video these guys miss completely the point. Also, they try to simulate 'real' attacks --- and it can be good for somebody who never saw a fight. However, it is very far from reality, so in that sense they cheat public that watch it.

From technical point of view, tori looks very stiff, by doing short, sharp movements he seems to believe that he can develop more power.His body doesn't move in the moment of a throw, it means that he does technique only with his hands. This way he can't release a real power. So uke must jump and help him to do a technique. I hope tori will progress in the future, but he will need a real Master.

Don_Modesto
07-03-2006, 02:09 PM
Yes, I know, you really don't care, etc.

Chris, you are a patient man. My congratulations and admiration.

Kutisake
07-03-2006, 03:51 PM
You know Pauliina, for me aikido practice is not a circus or show. Demo to promote aikido must mirror daily practice, not develop false choreography like in the theatre.

That's why; in this video these guys miss completely the point. Also, they try to simulate 'real' attacks --- and it can be good for somebody who never saw a fight. However, it is very far from reality, so in that sense they cheat public that watch it.

From technical point of view, tori looks very stiff, by doing short, sharp movements he seems to believe that he can develop more power.His body doesn't move in the moment of a throw, it means that he does technique only with his hands. This way he can't release a real power. So uke must jump and help him to do a technique. I hope tori will progress in the future, but he will need a real Master.

Respected Szczepan Janczuk! I wonder what dan do you hold to make such strict judgements?!

Don_Modesto
07-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Respected Szczepan Janczuk! I wonder what dan do you hold to make such strict judgements?!

Are you associated with the guy in the video?

Someone asked for an opinion, he gave it. Were people hoping only for flattery? Welcome to Scz...

I had some problems with the video, too. But in fairness, we see SHIHAN with cooperative UKE, so why give lesser mortals grief about it? There was a lot to like in the clip.

There's a (rather impressive) video of Yamada demonstrating in Japan. Toward the end of the RANDORI, he is obviously being overwhelmed and simply signals for it to end.

SHIHAN? ECCE HOMO!

aikigirl10
07-03-2006, 05:30 PM
Chris, you are a patient man. My congratulations and admiration.

lol what can i say, he talked to the bitchy 1am Paige, without blowing up. Really though, i was rude and i apologize chris. It being 1 am was no excuse.

*Paige*

Chris Li
07-03-2006, 05:41 PM
lol what can i say, he talked to the bitchy 1am Paige, without blowing up. Really though, i was rude and i apologize chris. It being 1 am was no excuse.

*Paige*

Luckily, it was still a decent hour in Honolulu :).

Best,

Chris

NagaBaba
07-05-2006, 06:00 PM
Respected Szczepan Janczuk! I wonder what dan do you hold to make such strict judgements?!
Hi Helen,
It has nothing to do with my rank. My judgement comes from level of training not from ranks.
Strict???? -- I'd say fair. I gave some rational arguments, they can be used to improve practice if someone wish.

NagaBaba
07-05-2006, 06:07 PM
I had some problems with the video, too. But in fairness, we see SHIHAN with cooperative UKE, so why give lesser mortals grief about it? There was a lot to like in the clip.
I didn't say it was entierly bad.

Why set our goals less then Founder level? It would be capitulation.

aikigirl10
07-05-2006, 06:41 PM
It has nothing to do with my rank. My judgement comes from level of training not from ranks.


Well how long have you been training then? Rank is irrelevant, i agree, but the amount of time you have spent practicing/studying aikido, is extremely relevant. I think we are all simply curious.

mathewjgano
07-05-2006, 07:14 PM
I'm a bit late, but I thought the video showed some real good things. It was certainly energetic, which satisfied my Bart Simpson attention span. The variety of technique was pretty cool. I can understand the argument that demonstrations should reflect daily training, but I can also understand why that might not be so good too. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other as long as in either they try to maintain a high degree of sincerity. I can understand wanting to ensure a polished performance. I think demos are more about giving a very general idea than exactness...though it does take some of the wind out of the sails when you see someone throw himself. Still, I've been training off and on for almost 8 years (mostly off, but I've seen a lot of demonstrations) and I thought it was a pretty good demo, relatively speaking (it's all relative after all! :D ).
Take care,
Matt

mathewjgano
07-05-2006, 07:33 PM
Well how long have you been training then? Rank is irrelevant, i agree, but the amount of time you have spent practicing/studying aikido, is extremely relevant. I think we are all simply curious.
I'd say I'm a good example of how length of time training can be moot too. If asked (and occasionally when not asked :p ), I tell people I began training 8 years ago and sometimes they think that sounds impressive. It's quality, not quantity though. In reality, I've only got roughly 2 years of solid training in: the first year I trained often, sometimes 5 and 6 days a week, usually 3 or 4 days a week. Second year was about half that. Third year was maybe once or twice a month, and from there the only regularity was in how much it declined. Only recently have I begun to train again with any consistency.
So, long boring story short (sorry): what was the question again? :confused: Oh yeah, you weren't talkig to me... :D

Don_Modesto
07-05-2006, 09:52 PM
Why set our goals less then Founder level? It would be capitulation.

Nice.

dps
07-05-2006, 10:24 PM
Szczepan,
How is your video coming along? :)

NagaBaba
07-06-2006, 06:05 AM
Szczepan,
How is your video coming along? :)
Moderator hat on
David, please stay on topic.
Moderator hat off :D

dps
07-06-2006, 08:00 AM
Moderator hat on
David, please stay on topic.
Moderator hat off :D
Just curious. :)
Maybe we could start a thread about your video. You know give you ideas to put in it. :D

Demetrio Cereijo
07-06-2006, 08:04 AM
Just curious. :)
Maybe we could start a thread about your video. You know give you ideas to put in it. :D
That's been done :)

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10204

Ron Tisdale
07-06-2006, 09:54 AM
I like the demo as a demo. I also think Mr. S has a good point about demo's mirroring regular practice. But things as they are, I except that demos for most won't be that.

That said, I wonder what some of the Kokyu Crowd (TM) have to say about that demo. The style of aikido (Iwama) that the demonstrator trains in often speaks of developing kokyu. In my limited experience and ability in that area, I would have to say that in spite of exquisite timing, good movement in general, and sharp atemi, the demonstrator only showed decent kokyu ability on a few of the hip throws. A lot of the others it looks like he loses his connection to the ground, and covers it by muscling the throws with his upper body.

But he would kick my butt.

Best,
Ron

Don_Modesto
07-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Szczepan,
How is your video coming along? :)

Excellent! Keep on it!