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VampyrTooth
06-19-2006, 08:53 AM
I am going to observe an aikido class today, since I am interested in studying a new art. I am a black belt in karate already, so I was wondering how quickly I would or would not be able to pick up aikido. Can anyone tell me some major differences and simularities between the two? Any information would be helpful.

Mark Freeman
06-19-2006, 09:23 AM
Hi Kyle,

If the aikido is in a book you can 'pick it up in a moment' if it is deep understanding you are after it will take years! ;)

I haven't practiced karate but my observations are that the major differences are aikido is based on circular rather than linear movement, deflections rather than blocks, locks and projections rather than strikes ( although there are strikes and linear movement in aikido ).
Similarities would be those common to all martial arts - mental focus, physical co-ordination, timing, relaxation etc.

I hope you enjoy the class, why not let us know your thoughts after the event?

regards,

Mark

Dajo251
06-19-2006, 09:26 AM
a good friend of mine is a kemp blackbelt and started aikido about 3 months ago, he has problems witht he circular nature of aikido, but other then that he has picked it up very well, once in a while he will throw an atemi a little to aggressivly and catch uke in the jaw but we all forgive him fo that one

VampyrTooth
06-19-2006, 09:29 AM
We'll I've been researching it a little since I found out a class was near, so can anyone tell me if my information is correct, or how accurate it is? Aikido is more based on throwing your opponent off balance and making them give up since they can't hurt you, instead of breaking their rib before they even get to you. Aikido uses weapons as a tool of clarity, not agression. Aikido teaches you how to re-route energy and use it against them, aswell as how to pop limbs so they can't even harm you in the first place. Aikido is power yoga. Aikido is impractical for fighting, just a way to pretend you know what you are doing.

As you can see I've heard a lot of conflicting views, that last few of which I hope are false. Help me out here?

dps
06-19-2006, 09:47 AM
I am going to observe an aikido class today, since I am interested in studying a new art. I am a black belt in karate already, so I was wondering how quickly I would or would not be able to pick up aikido. Can anyone tell me some major differences and simularities between the two? Any information would be helpful.

All the answers are on the mat. Observing a practice, watching a video, pictures in a book or explanations from people will only give you misleading answers. Go to the class with no preconceived ideas on what Aikido is. Don't sit and observe, ask to join in immediately.

Have Fun
David

Ron Tisdale
06-19-2006, 09:49 AM
You've got to help yourself out. Most of us are still working through some of the same issues you reference (try looking at the What do you think about this thread).

Just find the best teacher in your area and get on the mat and do the research there.

Best,
Ron

Talon
06-19-2006, 09:52 AM
Well Aikido is not about fighting....its about blending with the movements of the attacker. Fighting generally means a strugle between two or more people. If you're strugling with someone you are not doing Aikido. If you master aikido you will never struggle (fight) with anyone, you will throw them effortlessly using their own momentum. "Aikido is impractical for fighting" therefore technically is a true statement since Aikido is the opposite of fighting (or struggling with someone).

This is the way I understand things anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dirk Hanss
06-19-2006, 10:12 AM
We'll I've been researching it a little since I found out a class was near, so can anyone tell me if my information is correct, or how accurate it is? Aikido is more based on throwing your opponent off balance and making them give up since they can't hurt you, instead of breaking their rib before they even get to you. Aikido uses weapons as a tool of clarity, not agression. Aikido teaches you how to re-route energy and use it against them, aswell as how to pop limbs so they can't even harm you in the first place. Aikido is power yoga. Aikido is impractical for fighting, just a way to pretend you know what you are doing.

As you can see I've heard a lot of conflicting views, that last few of which I hope are false. Help me out here?

Kyle,

I had some 6 years of Karate practice (though only 2nd kyu, blue belt) befor starting aikido.

I could use all my dachi and moving knowledge in a very similar way and I was familiar with the training environment (seiza, mokuso, bowing, etc). I was better as striking uke as many of the hgher graded students.

I did not have problems withe the moves and the different idea of fighting as this was, what I chose. But it is a totally different paradigm, if there is no competition, much less aggressive training style, etc.

Most of your statement I can agree with. Just let me clarify two things:
a) aikido is mostly conflict management, neither avoiding nor winning a conflict. So yes most techniques are throws and locks (not in all styles), as it is a solution to stop agression and protect the agressor as well (as good as possible).

b) depending on training method and organisation, it takes a long time to master aikido in a way to beat someone up - ideally so long that you would never have any intention to, but there are many examples of efficient aikido techniques in "real life".

Probably here is karate a disadvantage, because you used to rely on this style of fighting and it is difficult to keep it back as laast choice. One karate fellow, who just joined our karate dojo at that time told me "When I was in Chicago we were conditioned, that if anyone would have touched our shoulder from behind, we would have killed him immediately." Now I guess the only people they would have killed, if there were really able to, were friends, who wanted to say hello, strangers, who want to tell them that they have lost something or ask for help, or maybe some trick thieves. All the the other gangsters or terrorists, would not have let them a chance to turn around. Now you have a tool to protect yourself, without killing innocent passengers ;)

I just recomment to read the 1000+ posts in "aikido does not work at all in a fight" to understand both sides.



Dirk

VampyrTooth
06-19-2006, 10:25 AM
"When I was in Chicago we were conditioned, that if anyone would have touched our shoulder from behind, we would have killed him immediately."

Yeah I remember that... grew out of the habit quickly after I decked my buddy in the face. I guess I'm lukewarm as to the concepts then, I'll have to check it out definitely before I make a desicion on whether or not to join. Keep the info coming.

Mark Uttech
06-19-2006, 10:48 AM
when I first went to an aikido dojo, I had almost no prior information about Aikido other than the word: "Aikido." From watching that first class, I knew I was looking at something that i was going to do for the rest of my life. That was 22 years ago.

dps
06-19-2006, 11:55 AM
I just recomment to read the 1000+ posts in "aikido does not work at all in a fight" to understand both sides.

Dirk
Dirk,
Is this the same as the old Japanese story if you fold a thousands cranes you get a wish come true? :)

Your Uke,
David

justin
06-19-2006, 12:42 PM
I also come from a karate background and also hold a dan grade, I myself found starting Aikido very hard I almost had to unlearn what I had learnt for the first year and start again, now I have a year under my belt I can start to implement what I have learned to what I am learning now, by the way this is very hard to explain, I found Aikido to have more differences than similarities at my stage, one thing that does stand out is Aikido folk seem to be a lot less clicky and funny when you go to seminars than karate folk do maybe that will change as I progress I hope it doesn’t though.

crbateman
06-19-2006, 02:08 PM
Spent many years training in and teaching TaeKwonDo before taking up Aikido. It was quite a culture shock at first, without the aerial stuff, breaking, and the whole non-agressive mindset. I had to "unlearn" much, but at the same time, I immediately found it a good fit, and very enjoyable. Even my old TKD training seemed to make more sense. I hope it is the same with you.

graham
06-19-2006, 05:40 PM
I am a black belt in karate already, so I was wondering how quickly I would or would not be able to pick up aikido.

Hi Kyle,

I've been doing Aikido for less than a month, so take this with a pinch of salt! :)

I studied Kung-fu for around 9 years and though Aikido feels very different, I do seem to be picking things up quicker than some others. I'm not quite sure why that is.

I think part of it has to do with simply "feeling" the rythm of movement and so on. In the style I studied, you would "meet" a hard attack with a soft one (e.g. if they attacked like a rock, you would respond like water). I guess there's something of the spirit of Aikido in there?

However, I suspect that the biggest issue is simply that I know how much fun martial arts can be. I expect to enjoy myself so I relax, and so on.

VampyrTooth
06-20-2006, 07:36 AM
Well I observed and half attended my first class, and I don't think you guys get enough credit. I was extremely impressed with it all, and am definitely going to persue Aikido. I found it humorously ironic that some people complain that Aikido is useless in a fight, and UFC is better, when a UFC competitor is a second or third dan at my dojo. Anyways, Aikido is essentially the lazy man's martial art. Don't expell energy, use your attackers, throw them off balance and use physics to cheat your way through a fight. I love it!

Mark Uttech
06-20-2006, 09:04 AM
Kyle, I am glad you found some sort of answer to your quest about aikido. I have to say that I completely disagree about 1. aikido being essentially a lazy person's martial art
2. not expelling energy
3. using physics to "cheat"
I think you will find out rather quickly how wrong your thinking is on those three counts alone.

ian
06-20-2006, 09:55 AM
Its sometimes useful to come from another martial art as you can see more immediately why certain things in aikido are done. You'll probably miss some aspects of karate e.g. competition and sparring.

There is no one time at which you have learnt or completed aikido. Its like saying when will you learn how to swim - from the very start you have the instrinsic ability, but by directed training you can improve your physical responses and abilties until you are a world class swimmer/aikidoka. Learning the individual techniques of aikido is really just the 1st stage.

Practically I think 6 months is long enough to be able to utilise aikido in a real situation

ian
06-20-2006, 10:00 AM
As regards your questions on the comments Kyle; you'll be well aware that many martial arts (inc. karate) are criticised for being ineffective. Basically martial arts give you a better tool kit but it doesn't always mean you'll have the right tool for the job, or have the strength or ability to be able to use the tool properly. There is less difference between martial arts (at a high level) than people imagine, and more difference between luck than people realise.

Some instructors in aikido do see self-defence as secondary, but it sounds like you've found a club that suits you. I think sincerity in training is the key to being a good martial artist.

Good luck with it, aikido never ceases to amaze me (indeed I now see it as a framework for thinking about self-defence, rather than a set of techniques)

VampyrTooth
06-20-2006, 11:22 AM
Kyle, I am glad you found some sort of answer to your quest about aikido. I have to say that I completely disagree about 1. aikido being essentially a lazy person's martial art
2. not expelling energy
3. using physics to "cheat"
I think you will find out rather quickly how wrong your thinking is on those three counts alone.


I think you misunderstand, I was kidding. I realize it's not a 'lazy art' or 'cheating' but how you use physics to minimalize effort and still get the desired effect is what I was referring too. I'm not as naiive and/or arrogant as your perceiving here bud, lighten up :D

Talon
06-20-2006, 11:29 AM
What you realized is what I said in my previous post....Aikido is the opposite of fighting....

dps
06-20-2006, 11:30 AM
Well I observed and half attended my first class,

Kyle,
Just curious, what did they have you do when you participated in the class?