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06-11-2006, 01:30 AM
AikiWeb Poll for the week of June 11, 2006:

Which would you rather have your aikido feel like to others?

I don't do aikido
Forceful
Subtle


Here are the current results (http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=328).

Mark Uttech
06-11-2006, 06:19 AM
I imagine a side effect of this poll will show us here the great difference of our ages.

mathewjgano
06-11-2006, 08:11 AM
I imagine a side effect of this poll will show us here the great difference of our ages.

28- subtle...forceful sounds...simplistic to me. I'd certainly like powerful Aikido, but subtle seems more refined than forceful.

Mark Freeman
06-11-2006, 09:04 AM
50 and getting subtler ;)

Ed Shockley
06-11-2006, 01:20 PM
The question is a bit fuzzy since "forceful" and "subtle" are not opposites but rather moments united in a single technique.

Ed Shockley

Robert Jackson
06-11-2006, 03:00 PM
Subtle, Forceful implies resistance and muscle.

Even giving a comitted attack doesn't mean the uke is being forceful.

Qatana
06-11-2006, 08:28 PM
On the mat I want it to feel like being cuddled to the ground, if felt at all.
In a dark alley I would rather it felt like getting hit with a ton of bricks. Which, essentially, it would be.

Lucy Smith
06-12-2006, 09:20 AM
On the mat I want it to feel like being cuddled to the ground, if felt at all.
In a dark alley I would rather it felt like getting hit with a ton of bricks. Which, essentially, it would be.

Amen ;)

billybob
06-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Amen again.

If only we could have that ton of bricks dangling over the attacker just when we need it!!

dave

Eric Webber
06-12-2006, 10:48 AM
I see a lot of one voted for in the poll and a lot of the other felt on the mat. Curious.....

Mark Freeman
06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
I see a lot of one voted for in the poll and a lot of the other felt on the mat. Curious.....

Eric, it is an aspirational poll, hence the inconsistency ;)

regards,

Mark

Leslie Parks
06-12-2006, 01:16 PM
Given that this poll is directed at a population of people who practice an art where the most commonly named technique is based on timing (kokyunage), the results are not surprising. Rather like asking a chocolate lover what is their favorite flavor.

mathewjgano
06-12-2006, 10:49 PM
On the mat I want it to feel like being cuddled to the ground, if felt at all.
In a dark alley I would rather it felt like getting hit with a ton of bricks.

Even if the end result were the same: that the attacker was controlled completely?

Lyle Bogin
06-12-2006, 10:52 PM
My personal goal is for "gentle yet effective" aikido on the mat.

Qatana
06-12-2006, 11:24 PM
Matthew- If I believed I could Control an attacker I would have a different answer. Maybe in 20 years or so when I am a 70 year old sandan, but I am trying to be realistic here. If I can hurt them enough to discourage them, it gives me time to start running.

billybob
06-13-2006, 01:09 PM
Even if the end result were the same: that the attacker was controlled completely?
M Gano

I'm fond of weird analogies: the judo school I went to in college did about half Ni Waza, or ground technique (sounds cooler in Japanese, doesn't it?). The Kodokan trained Shihan had a bumb hip, so he played more on the mat with us, or On us I should say. He weighed only about 185, but was solid at 50 + years old. He had a way of laying on us softly, but focusing what felt like 500 pounds on us.

Darndest thing. He was using no effort, but we had to tap out from pain, or being unable to breathe, if we could muster the strength to tap!

Total control; subtle effort.

dave

erikmenzel
06-14-2006, 12:21 AM
I never thought subtile would exclude forcefull. For me it sounds like trying to seperate gentle and firm which I believe to be intertwined as well.

eyrie
06-14-2006, 12:32 AM
I'm not sure. It ranges from somewhere between "brick wall" and "empty jacket" - so I've been told.

mathewjgano
06-15-2006, 02:21 AM
Matthew- If I believed I could Control an attacker I would have a different answer. Maybe in 20 years or so when I am a 70 year old sandan, but I am trying to be realistic here. If I can hurt them enough to discourage them, it gives me time to start running.

I basically agree with you. I was just posing a hypothetical idea.
Take care,
Matt

Tim Olds
06-16-2006, 09:10 PM
I'm surprised no one has said something like, "I'd like it to BE subtle, but to FEEL forceful to others..."

OR

I'd like it to BE forceful, but to FEEL subtle to others..."

hmmm I'm gonna ponder those for a bit...

statisticool
06-16-2006, 10:58 PM
..like an immovable force yet a defense that leaves the aggressor unharmed.

Mark Uttech
06-17-2006, 08:40 AM
ah, the age question always arises. How fast can you run when you are 70, 80? I have done randori practices where nage focuses on being 80 years old, and the 3 attackers are in their 20s. It ties in with something the late Terry Dobson sensei taught in a seminar. The theme was: "the uke brings your death."