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Pete
07-11-2000, 12:34 PM
Drew said :

Yes I feel I'm superego, thanks to much meditation, open-mindedness, and AIKIDO !!!! My problem now is trying to make ma-ai into maai, that way I can be a superego and be happy ! 8). I think you are superego as well, Pete, for what it's worth I think I can tell that from your posts.
===========

Drew,

Define 'superego'!!

Pete

Chuck Clark
07-11-2000, 04:02 PM
Pete,

I suspect the more we talk to Drew the more "superego" we're gonna see! Or is it possible that there's "more than one Drew" that we're seeing sides off?

Pete
07-12-2000, 03:45 AM
Chuck,

I have no idea, but I am curious as to why he is so vehement in his postings, and why he thinks 'superego' is a good thing!!

Pete

Keith_S
07-12-2000, 07:08 AM
I thought one of our aims in following Aikido was the abandonment of ego. (and I suspect superego) does that then leave us with just the Id?

Chuck Clark
07-12-2000, 10:23 AM
I suspect that discussing the semantic differences between some of the terms we use is kind of like chasing our tail.

I don't see how it's possible to get rid of the ego and be alive and a functioning human.

Possibly what has to happen is that we realize our true nature and lose the fear and insecurity which add behaviors that we do not find attractive and leaves the true ego of the newborn.

I think that often the best we can do to articulate these matters ends up being poetry, not scientific descriptive quantification.

I have had the good fortune to have been around and acquainted with several people who were reputed spiritual teachers of some reknown. They all had ego and didn't fight it. Understand it, accept it, take responsibility for it, and spend the energy in compassionate ways ... yes.

Regards,

[Edited by Chuck Clark on July 12, 2000 at 09:25am]

Pete
07-12-2000, 10:50 AM
Sounds good to me Chuck.

A lot of egotistical behaviour stems from insecurities of the individual! By accepting these as part of you it becomes easier to function without resorting to or reacting to those fears.

Nick
07-12-2000, 01:54 PM
My 2 yen-

I think that many people hide behind their ego to hide their weakness. They're afraid of flying? They don't admit it, but hide behind their ego and make instead a snide comment. Superego coming fromt his guy, god only knows what it means. I believe we should try to feel good about ourselves, therefore the ego will still be there, but we won't need it to hide behind.

-Nick

Pete
07-13-2000, 03:40 AM
All very fine opinions, yet the one who prompted this thread has yet to give us his view.

Come on Drew dbgard. Define 'superego' and I can decide if it fits with how I am!!!

Pete

dbgard
07-13-2000, 09:14 AM
Pete wrote:
All very fine opinions, yet the one who prompted this thread has yet to give us his view.

Come on Drew dbgard. Define 'superego' and I can decide if it fits with how I am!!!

Pete

Pete,

I'm not a dead Austrian named Sigmund but here are some of my thoughts on id, ego, and superego. I can already tell by one of your posts on this thread that you agree with me on the function of - and reason for - ego. Specifically, I'm refering to the part you wrote, Pete, about ego keeping us from feeling totally vulnerable and allowing us to deal with our fears. When Zsa Zsa Gabor (sp?) slapped a police officer, did she do it b/c some of her basic needs (id) could be recovered in doing so? I think not.

I think that fame can have, but certainly doesn't usually have, a degenerative effect on a person in the spotlight. First ego grows "out of proportion", then loneliness, confusion, and psychotic thoughts sometimes follow suit. I think most famous people have the ability and skill to keep themselves under control.

In my opinion, the superego is simply the summit of Maslow's hierarchy (pyramid) of psychological and physiological needs. This pyramid I've always found to be intriguing and seemingly perfect. The top of the hierarchy is labeled "self-actualization", which screams superego, enlightenment, Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha in my mind's ear. If anyone has a psychology book or gets the desire to look up Maslow's pyramid on the web, please share your thoughts with me. The main point of the ladder is that no higher-level goal can be sought out until all lower levels have been obtained and stabilized. I would like to let my feelings out on the bottom two rungs of the ladder.

The bottom-most level of the pyramid is entitled physiological (survival) needs. This is food, shelter, water, etc..(the bare necessities) and perhaps equals the "id". On the second level we have safety needs: A general feeling that the world is a safe place, a dojo. This is the level at which fears of society must be addressed. Only once one is no longer afraid of society can he/she step up to the next-higher plane which is love needs.

Check out that pyramid guys, I never leave home without it in my subconscious mind!!

Love,
Drew

Aiki1
07-13-2000, 09:58 AM
Although Maslow's hierarchy is very valuable, it is also limited because it is (basically by his definition) a linear perspective. Contemporary psychology, or consciousness work, allows for a much more holographic view of development, process, integration, and consciousness. At the same time, the concepts of Id, Ego, and Super Ego can be expanded by looking at the structure of the psyche more in terms of "Operating Ego" - the natural development of personality due to all the forces acting on us as we grow up etc., and "Aware Ego" - incorporating the transformations that occur as we work on ourselves and become more aware of the unconscious forces coming through our personality and behavior, and therefore begin to have a more expanded sense of free will and free choice.

Uh - I could go on forever, this is my field.

Pete
07-13-2000, 10:46 AM
Way deep for me Drew, however I kind of see what you mean! I think!!

If you are taking 'superego' as being aware of your own failings and personality quirks and striving to either adapt or overcome them then perhaps I am 'superego' as you call it!!

Pete

dbgard
07-13-2000, 12:12 PM
Aiki1 wrote:
Although Maslow's hierarchy is very valuable, it is also limited because it is (basically by his definition) a linear perspective. Contemporary psychology, or consciousness work, allows for a much more holographic view of development, process, integration, and consciousness.

Much like Pete was not too familiar with Maslow's pyramid, I am quite unfamiliar with Aiki1's studies of consciousness work. To me this is proof that Pete, Aiki1, and I are 3 of many teachers/students who have achieved the Superego !!!!. This is cause celebre in my opinion. Only when thinking humbly can I ask Pete or Aiki1 what knowledge they possess in particular fields. I can pretend to be humble and ask for selfish gain, but my ego would keep me from gaining anything at all. How beautiful when the Tengu (Mother Nature) and tengu (Human Teachers) show themselves.

AikiTom
07-13-2000, 12:37 PM
Myself, I'm a "third force" believer mostly - I like to study "healthy" models, not "unhealthy" ones like Freud chose to do ( and, remember he was cocaine-dependent and impotent - enough problems without having to analyze anyone else's :) ) Plus, ego, superego, and id aren't necessarily helpful analytical constructs in light of today's knowledge in that area.)

Also, I believe that Maslow went through some real changes that surprised even him following the birth of a child, and these changed his views over time and were reflected in his later work. As you grow in years, Drew, I think you'll enjoy the evolving "world view" that you experience also!

Peace, buddy! :)

[Edited by AikiTom on July 13, 2000 at 11:58am]

Nick
07-13-2000, 02:42 PM
AikiTom wrote:
Myself, I'm a "third force" believer mostly - I like to study "healthy" models, not "unhealthy" ones like Freud chose to do ( and, remember he was cocaine-dependent and impotent - enough problems without having to analyze anyone else's :)

They mention Freud in Analyze This, if anyone's seen it. This is totally OT, but Robert de Niro lays into him :).

-Nick

Yo-Jimbo
07-14-2000, 12:07 PM
"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path." -Morpheus

I've seen id, ego and super-ego modelled as an iceberg. Id is under the surface of the water, as one should try to hide it from society (when people don't it usually involves hurt feelings or litigation). Ego is above and below the water telling one how to get what one needs without angering society. The super-ego sits high and dry telling one how to get what others need even if it takes personal sacrifice.

It would be nice to think that Aikido can somehow teach me to float higher. Perhaps that is at least partually true, but I think I should be happy to use training to find out where most of that ice is under the surface. That way I can avoid snagging passing ships...