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Sonja2012
04-18-2006, 08:26 AM
Hi all,

could anyone tell me what the Japanese word for "group" would be? I mean "group" as in a group of people i.e. the people who do aikido together in a dojo.

Thanks very much for your help,
Sonja

Josh Reyer
04-18-2006, 09:38 AM
Hi all,

could anyone tell me what the Japanese word for "group" would be? I mean "group" as in a group of people i.e. the people who do aikido together in a dojo.

Thanks very much for your help,
Sonja

Not surprisingly in a group oriented society, there are many, many words for "group". There's the English loanword グループ "guruupu". There's the old Chinese standby 集団 "shuudan". There's the words for teams 球団 "kyuudan", and words for a bunch of people 連中 "renchuu". If I refered to the people I do aikido with, I'd probably say 道場 "dojo" or 道場の人たち "dojo no hitotachi" "the people at the dojo". A more official phrasing would probably be 道場の会員たち "dojo no kaiin-tachi", "members of the dojo".

If you could tell us how you want to use the word it'd be a lot easier to find the right word for what you want to say.

Tom54
04-18-2006, 09:39 AM
Hallo Sonja

Wie geht es dir?
Ich habe auch in Deutschland gelebt, in Koeln fuer zehn Jahre. Ich habe mich damahls mehr als ein Deutscher angesehn als ein Japaner. Sehr, sehr gute Erinnerung!!

I think the appropriate word would be (in the context of peoples who are doing Aikido in the same dojo) "Nakama". But the literal translation of the word "Nakama" would be "Buddies" or"Kumpels".

A literal translation of the English word "group" would be either "Gurupu(the adopter version for the English word) or "Shudan(very formal word)".

If you are not trying a formal explanation of the English word "group" even the adopted Japanese version of the word ("Gurupu") would be better.

If you are trying a more intimate explanation, "Nakama" would be best.

Ron Tisdale
04-18-2006, 10:14 AM
Osu! Tom,

I didn't know you spoke german as well! Now I really feel inferiour. 10 years in Germany? How did you like Koeln? There is a Yoshinkan instructor who lives in Paris, but teaches in Germany I believe. Have you trained with him?

Best,
Ron

Sonja2012
04-19-2006, 12:50 AM
Thanks you guys, for taking the time to reply!

I should have given you more information about this, sorry:

If you wanted to give a group of people who train together an "identity" (for example a name such as "shoshin aikido group") and couldnīt name the dojo itself, what word would you use for that? The German word for group just sounds silly and so maybe the Japanese word for that might be an option... :rolleyes: Would Nakama still be correct for that?

Tom, I am glad you had a good time in Koeln. I always found that the people from that area are very gregarious and easy-going - after all they had a type of beer named after themselves :D . I went to a couple of really good parties there :) Are you living in Japan, now?

Kind reagrds,
Sonja

Josh Reyer
04-19-2006, 06:44 AM
Thanks you guys, for taking the time to reply!

I should have given you more information about this, sorry:

If you wanted to give a group of people who train together an "identity" (for example a name such as "shoshin aikido group") and couldnīt name the dojo itself, what word would you use for that? The German word for group just sounds silly and so maybe the Japanese word for that might be an option... :rolleyes: Would Nakama still be correct for that?


Well, don't knock your own language! German is a great, ancient language, with words of power and meaning to its native speakers. Just because a word comes from a foreign language doesn't make it better; often times what seems exotic in a foreign language is in fact quite commonplace.

"Nakama" wouldn't be what you're looking for in this case. Ironically (given my earlier remarks), the word you're looking for in Japanese is just that sort of import. You could use クラブ kurabu, "club" (alternatively written with the kanji 倶楽部), or サークル saakuru "circle".

Another alternative would be to use 会 "kai". For example:

Shoshin Aikido Renshukai 初心合気道練習会 "Shoshin Aikido Practice Group"
Shoshin Aikido Kenkyukai 初心合気道研究会 "Shoshin Aikido Research Group"
Shoshin Aikido Keikokai 初心合気道稽古会 "Shoshin Aikido Training Group"
Shoshin Aikido Shugyokai 初心合気道修業会 "Shoshin Aikido Training Group"

"Club", "circle", and "renshukai" have a nice informal ring to them. "Kenkyukai", "keikokai", and "shugyokai" sound more serious to my ears. Perhaps Tom-san can provide some more ideas or perspective.

kokyu
04-21-2006, 11:42 AM
"Club", "circle", and "renshukai" have a nice informal ring to them. "Kenkyukai", "keikokai", and "shugyokai" sound more serious to my ears. Perhaps Tom-san can provide some more ideas or perspective.

If what I hear is indicative of a general trend, I believe that 'circle' is a common way of describing a group that's 'into' something.

Otherwise, what do you think of 団体 (dantai)?

Josh Reyer
04-21-2006, 01:53 PM
If what I hear is indicative of a general trend, I believe that 'circle' is a common way of describing a group that's 'into' something.

Otherwise, what do you think of 団体 (dantai)?

Interestingly, there's an 合気道団体 (aikido dantai) entry in the Japanese Wikipedia, under which it lists most of the well-known Japanese aikido organizations, Aikikai, Yoshinkai, Shinshin Toitsu Aikidokai, etc.

But as a name of a club, I don't think it would be too bad.

saltlakeaiki
04-22-2006, 12:13 PM
If I understand correctly what is being asked for, I think you definitely want -kai. None of the others (with the possible exception of kurabu) ring true to me when used in the name of a group.

However it's still not clear exactly what sort of group this is. Is it a bunch of friends within an established dojo? If so, what is it about the group that gives it its identity?

Dave

rottunpunk
04-24-2006, 08:28 AM
i agree, kai
as in aikikai, roshukai etc.
dont know how to type in kanji though im afraid
:p

Sonja2012
04-25-2006, 01:26 AM
Thank you all for taking the time to reply, you have given me lots of ideas and things to think about. Itīs such a detailed language, it seems. Gosh - I actually thought about taking Japanese classes, but it seems so complicated that I donīt know if I could manage ;)

Josh, I agree that oneīs own language can be powerful and using fancy foreign words is not always the best option. But there are words that just donīt *sound* good in connection with others and "Aikido Gruppe" or "Aikido Kreis" (German for group and circle) are - unfortunately some of them, IMO.

We are still thinking about some German expression too, but havenīt found one so far. I like saakuru, too.