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arvin m.
07-12-2001, 06:17 AM
So anyway this just happened today at school but i kinda thought what if it happened in reality...when i was sitting at the canteen table...ok just imagine say yer sitting at a table and the table's like at chest level. Someone beside me grabbed my collar real tight and he's really really strong..it struck me that while sitting on yer bum u cannot draw back like in a katadori nikkyo, and it also struck me that u cannot grab the offending wrist and twist it around so that u can either kotegaishi(if he lets go) or do the finishing, standing lock of nikkyo(where u place his wrist on yer shoulder and cut down at the elbow/ pull outwards at the elbow...)= he's holding on too strong for these. I opted to instead palm him hard at the elbow so he kinda let go but see(could have atemied into his ribs but that would be bad juju between friends rite?). i was wundering if there are subtler ways of persuading people to let go( so that they dont drag me to the toilet and strip me...)
as always i welcome criticisms and comments...u guys are fanstastic!!

Steve
07-12-2001, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by arvin m.
... Someone beside me grabbed my collar real tight and he's really really strong...... I opted to instead palm him hard at the elbow so he kinda let go but see(could have atemied into his ribs but that would be bad juju between friends rite?). i was wundering if there are subtler ways of persuading people to let go ...

If you can reach his elbow try activating the nerve just behind the bony projection on the underside of the joint. (Locate it by extending your arm, palm down, and slide your hand along the underside of your arm.) Digging in at this point with your thumb should get his attention.

MikeE
07-12-2001, 09:07 AM
I think this would be a good time to practice shodo seisu (control the first move). Don't allow the person to dig in and get a good hold of you in the first place. Start squirming right away to get into a position where you actually have time to apply technique.

Hiroshi Isoyama Shihan said in an article in Aikido Journal that when his aikido was being tested by servicemen he would use whatever means possible to get in the right position and ma-ai. (One time he had a wrestler wrap his arms and legs around him from behind and all Isoyama could do was butt him in the nose with the back of his head and proclaim "Now that is Budo!")

To get in the the right position you may have to use less tactful techniques.

[Censored]
07-13-2001, 12:15 PM
Can't break the grip?

Break the elbow.
Break the nose.
Break the ribs.

Then break the grip. You will find it is much easier. :)

Oh, you want a subtle technique. Move in and press your fingers into the base of his throat, while you ask him to release you. I think it worked in the movie. ;)

guest1234
07-13-2001, 03:07 PM
I'm not sure I understand the grip being used (nor why a friend wants to strip you in the bathroom) but to avoid bad karma and potential lawsuits, detention/demerits etc:
if he has grabbed you to threathen the bathroom disrobing, but is so far just holding you and running his mouth, you might be able to convince him to abandon the plan.
If he is instead trying to pull you up and back toward the bathroom, perhaps you could rise, move with the pull to get enough slack to do the techniques you had already thought about that are a bit gentler than breaking many bones (you know, the push when pulled business).
You might try relaxing completely, dead weight is hard to drag anywhere, and makes your friend look like a weakling, encouraging abandonment of the trip to the bathroom.
If this is a lunch table you are at, occasionally milk or soda in the face loosens a grip, and certainly attracts the attention of an adult who would frown on being dragged to the bathroom and stripped.

Mr.Skin
07-13-2001, 05:23 PM
Grab a fork & blend it into his hand or knee. Or depending on your postion, finger locks, unbalance him by acting agaist his knee, faint to the eyes or groin (or don't faint), duck under his arm and stand up.

Gavin

Jem8472
07-14-2001, 03:24 AM
This is a good question, in that situation of someone sitting next to me and grabbing my collar on my right side.
My reaction would be to extend my right arm straight infront of me. Then bring it down and wrap it under his arm and over, so his hand is in your arm pit while still grabbing your collar) with your arm over the top. Then you go around again with your arm and use your hand to cut into his shoulder u should be able to help him meet the table if you want, if not you have his arm nicely trapped :)

Hope you understood but it is a good move and worth trying out.

This is the same move if you are standing and someone grabs your shirt.

Niadh
07-14-2001, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Jem8472
This is a good question, in that situation of someone sitting next to me and grabbing my collar on my right side.
My reaction would be to extend my right arm straight infront of me. Then bring it down and wrap it under his arm and over, so his hand is in your arm pit while still grabbing your collar) with your arm over the top. Then you go around again with your arm and use your hand to cut into his shoulder u should be able to help him meet the table if you want, if not you have his arm nicely trapped :)

Hope you understood but it is a good move and worth trying out.

This is the same move if you are standing and someone grabs your shirt.
What I read you are saying is to wrap around the arm form the outside, twice,(under-out-down) and use the force of ki to move him toward the table.
I like the idea, but find with a stronger person, wrapping the arm from the inside (i.e. going toward his/her center first, then out around and backup under the arm or "over-out-up") helps me to use my center better. Oh yeah, it will also hyper-extend the elbow and is quite effective. Done slowly but with strong ki on a friend, it will usually convince them to let go before any damage is done. I have done this during an excersice we call nasty grabbies (more in a minute) on a person who is large and has very strong ki. I believe I was convincing as I have not been given the oppurtunity to try it again.
What are nasty grabbies? Nage stands still on the mat untill all participants (often the whole class) grab on to nage. Only after everyone has grabbed may Nage move. (S)he must then throw all attackers. An attacker may not regrab after being thrown or a grab broken.