Thanks, Francis. I wondered about ravenous but it seems to have a different origin. In the States you have the phrase eat crow. In the UK we say eat humble pie which sounds as if it might taste better but I don't think it does.

Great topic, Niall, with interesting sidebars to the conversation. I rather would prefer a "murder of crows" to an "unkindness of ravens"., although having to make a choice would be a rather "Poe" one indeed.

Another related point. Oolong tea in Japanese is ウーロン茶 烏竜茶 烏龍茶 crow dragon tea. Cool name!

By the way there's a connection there to the martial arts. Jean-Jacques Burnel the bass player of the Stranglers does karate. Apparently he has 6 dan now and teaches it. A more recent interview.

I ddin't include any music for this post because I was thinking of crows. Sheryl Crow, Counting Crows and the Black Crowes... Cool artists but the connection was a little forced. Then a good friend suggested The Raven by the Alan Parsons Project. This is another version by Gregorian. And classic punk: The Raven by the Stranglers.

That's a great point, thanks Peter. The Japanese soccer team has that yata-garasu emblem on their shirt badges. Three-legged crow on wikipedia.

Hello Niall, And there is also yata-garasu 八咫烏, the giant crow with three legs, which helped Kamu Yamato [ = the Emperor Jimmu] in his eastern march and conquest of Yamato. Best wishes, PAG

Hey Graham - that gives me an excuse to use a crow quote I didn't include. From Shakespeare's Henry VI: The owl shriek'd at thy birth, an evil sign; The night-crow cried, aboding luckless time; Dogs howl'd, and hideous tempest shook down trees; The raven rook'd her on the chimney's top, And chatt'ring pies in dismal discord sung. Pies are magpies.

Thanks Carina. Very cool references. Hugin and Munin left at dawn and returned at dusk. They perched on Odin's shoulders and whispered everything they had seen during the day. Hugin and Munin fly each day over the spacious earth. I fear for Hugin, that he come not back, yet more anxious am I for Munin (from the Poetic Edda quoted in that article).

Interesting. I've never really thought about or watched crows. Suppose I've always equated them with those old horror movies or witchcraft. Carinas just given me a new perspective there. Oh I've just forgotten the name of those black and white birds that are known for taking glittery things or anything really, like thieves. I've watched them and I call them the bullies of the bird world. They're like gangsters. Regards.G.

Nice post! It is a pity that crows are considered a bit sinister because they are of the most intelligent birds.Odin in the north mythology , the god of war, but also wisdom, magic, poetry, prophecy, had a raven on each shoulder Huginn(the thought) and Muninn(the memory) that flew all over the world and brought him information. And King Arthur of the tale of Camelot was said to have not died but have been transformed by magic into a Raven.